• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

You know, ten years ago, even five years ago, I could understand such adamant oppositions to certain creators and their style in DC media, but that's because there barely were DC movies and TV shows (though, at the time, it felt like a lot compared to the 00s, 90s and further back). But today?! It's really just one among many. If you don't like a certain DC movie, it's not like with Batman & Robin anymore when WB reacted by stopping all further comic book movies for a while. You don't like it, okay, move on to the next project.

Aquaman is totally different from Birds of Prey is totally different from Joker is totally different from Wonder Woman is totally different from SHAZAM! is totally different from BvS, and that's just a couple of the movies that have already been released in the past five years, I'm not even mentioning what's been going on on TV.

And the future? Shit, we've got so much coming. The Batman, The Suicide Squad, WW84, Aquaman 2, Black Adam, The Flash, and that's just the stuff we know to be in active development. Then there's the TV/streaming stuff, new Superman show, Doom Patrol, Titans, Stargirl, Justice League Dark, Green Lantern Corps, Pennyworth, Black Lightning, old-but-new Batwoman, Legends of Tomorrow, Tha Flash, one more season of Supergirl, movie tie-ins like GCPD, Peacemaker or The Trench, animated shows like Harley Quinn, Young Justice, 3-part Aquaman, fuck, I only just remembered the DC Animated Movies.

There is so much going on, so much widely different tones and styles in which DC properties are adapted. Constantly complaining about the tone of one of those projects, that just reminds me of those fans who complained when after about fifteen years of constant Batman cartoons there was that one show that tried for the lighter, Silver Age-y tone. Just move on. Watch something else, there's more than enough to pick from.
 
If 6 of the 7 DC Comics films being released in the next two years being explicitly set in the continuity that Zach Snyder helped create alongside Christopher Nolan and David S. Goyer - three of which he is credited as an Executive Producer on - is Warner Bros. "rejecting his influence", more directors ought to be hoping that studios start "rejecting their influence" too because it's clearly very good for their reputations and their resumes.
 
Well, this would explain a lot.

Opposing Views on Justice League Toxic Set Environment Emerge

Entertainment journalist John Campea has revealed a (redacted) eMail from an undisclosed source at WB, alleging that the set was already toxic thanks to the pressure from studio execs, the loyalty of the cast and crew towards Zack Snyder, as well as the focus of some cast members on what this movie will mean for their careers instead of the good of the movie itself. Here is the eMail:
W6kw6bX.jpg

Note that there is a lot blurred out there, so there might be more to this. Also, remember that it is an unnamed source, and I myself know John Campea only as a contestant on the Movie Trivia Schmoedown, so I don't know how trustworthy he is as a journalist.

That not withstanding, I'm inclined to believe this is real, as it fits a lot of what I figured myself already. It makes sense that Whedon was under pressure, considering we learned of things like the unwillingness to delay the release of the movie and the weird runtime limitation to under 2 hours even before the movie came out.

Of course, it's already called a fake by the LightCast Podcast (who?), tweeting it was "a set up to pain (Joss Whedon) as the victim and take heat off (Geoff Johns)". Ray Fisher, of course, retweeted that. What I would note is that Geoff Johns isn't even mentioned, at least not in the readable parts, and Whedon himself is described as not "exactly a peacemaker either".

So, yeah, while I maintain that none of us knows exactly what was going on, I'm inclined to take the situation described in the eMail as the most likely scenario, until and unless Fisher comes out and actually says something of fucking substance.
 
Kai "the spy" said:
So, yeah, while I maintain that none of us knows exactly what was going on, I'm inclined to take the situation described in the eMail as the most likely scenario
Click to expand...

Yeah, it does seem more credible. I mean, put it in context. We've never heard any horror stories about Whedon's behavior on any other set (even though much of his career has been devoted to making horror stories). So it follows that whatever toxicity there was on the JL set didn't come specifically or primarily from him. It makes sense that there would be resentment toward an outsider being brought in to "fix" something that the people involved had put a lot of work into. So it seems like Whedon stepped into what was already primed to be a hostile environment, and he seems to be the type who, if sniped at, will give as good as he got.
 
Yeah, that seems pretty plausible to me, and I can't help but wonder if Ray Fisher was one of the people who was being difficult.
 
JD said:
Yeah, that seems pretty plausible to me, and I can't help but wonder if Ray Fisher was one of the people who was being difficult.
Click to expand...
If that eMail is reflecting the truth, then most definitely. And, if you're honest, understandably so. Not only did he spend a lot of time with Snyder developing the character, this was also his chance for a breakout role. His movie career absolutely hinged on the reception of his character. I'd also add Momoa, not because he was worried over his career, but because he definitely liked Snyder on a personal level, and he's the kind of guy who could be quite intimidating.
 
Yeah, they both seemed to be biggest Snyder supporters, so I could see them being difficult for Whedon to deal with.
 
Kai "the spy" said:
Also, remember that it is an unnamed source, and I myself know John Campea only as a contestant on the Movie Trivia Schmoedown, so I don't know how trustworthy he is as a journalist.
Click to expand...
Campea is a solid source. He's been around the industry for years, developed the original Movie Talk show for AMC, and has plenty of contacts.
Plus he has a Wikipedia page, which puts him above most of the YouTube journalists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campea
 
Really, unless there is a complaint of racial discrimination, or harassment, or something demeaning of Fisher as a person--sometimes working in a toxic environment is something we all have to go through more than once in our lives. It is not nice, not fun, and it is stressful--but it happens in any profession.
 
^Yeah. It sounds like it was unpleasant, but not criminal in any way. Best to just let it drop and move on. I don't see the point of dredging it up now.
 
Kai "the spy" said:
You know, ten years ago, even five years ago, I could understand such adamant oppositions to certain creators and their style in DC media, but that's because there barely were DC movies and TV shows (though, at the time, it felt like a lot compared to the 00s, 90s and further back). But today?! It's really just one among many. If you don't like a certain DC movie, it's not like with Batman & Robin anymore when WB reacted by stopping all further comic book movies for a while. You don't like it, okay, move on to the next project.

Aquaman is totally different from Birds of Prey is totally different from Joker is totally different from Wonder Woman is totally different from SHAZAM! is totally different from BvS, and that's just a couple of the movies that have already been released in the past five years, I'm not even mentioning what's been going on on TV.

And the future? Shit, we've got so much coming. The Batman, The Suicide Squad, WW84, Aquaman 2, Black Adam, The Flash, and that's just the stuff we know to be in active development. Then there's the TV/streaming stuff, new Superman show, Doom Patrol, Titans, Stargirl, Justice League Dark, Green Lantern Corps, Pennyworth, Black Lightning, old-but-new Batwoman, Legends of Tomorrow, Tha Flash, one more season of Supergirl, movie tie-ins like GCPD, Peacemaker or The Trench, animated shows like Harley Quinn, Young Justice, 3-part Aquaman, fuck, I only just remembered the DC Animated Movies.

There is so much going on, so much widely different tones and styles in which DC properties are adapted. Constantly complaining about the tone of one of those projects, that just reminds me of those fans who complained when after about fifteen years of constant Batman cartoons there was that one show that tried for the lighter, Silver Age-y tone. Just move on. Watch something else, there's more than enough to pick from.
Click to expand...

God forbid people want movies that they could like. If I like Batman and want a movie starring him but don't want grimdark shit, I am literally screwed and have been for pretty much my whole life (outside of Mask of the Phantasm, the only good theatrically released Batman movie in my opinion). DC is a big universe, but if most of your favorite characters get fucked over, it doesn't matter. The big names keep being given to assholes like Snyder or completely out of place people like Nolan.

Sure, I'm excited for The Suicide Squad, the potential Aquaman and Shazam sequels, and possibly the Black Adam and Flash films, but I don't see any Superman or Batman related films being made for people who don't want to watch dark crap. Wonder Woman has been ruined by an incompetent director/writing/casting, so even the one good part of the live action DC Trinity isn't good anymore. I am a comic fan whose favorite characters are usually the B-listers, and I like a lot of characters in general, but that doesn't mean that I don't get pissed off that DC doesn't put out better stuff. It really hurts when most of my favorites either will never show up (like Power Girl) or get royally fucked over (I will never forgive DC for what they did with Cassandra Cain's name, even Snyder wasn't that much of a comic hating prick, and he killed off Jimmy Olsen with a bullet to the head).

Plus The TV stuff is dead, and the streaming stuff is crap. The Flash is struggling to stay good, and every other CW show is complete shit (Batwoman was ok, but the creators don't understand the concept of re-casting and so its not even Batwoman anymore). Doom Patrol was a one season wonder, Stargirl was nothing but giant fuck you to the JSA, Titans is the worst live action DC thing ever created (and I'm including Snyder's stuff and films like Catwoman in that statement), harley Quinn was complete garbage (and has some of the worst voice acting in a DC cartoon), and Young Justice Outsiders was an absolutely embarrassing follow up to an awesome show, with writing so terrible the only thing worse was the almost hilariously cheap animation.

It is a terrible time to be a DC fan, really. The comics are in the toilet, and most of the media adaptations range from crap to infuriating crap, and the few exceptions to that are literally years away from coming out. The quantity of DC stuff is absolutely meaningless, especially when the quality of most of it is so low.
 
kirk55555 said:
God forbid people want movies that they could like. If I like Batman and want a movie starring him but don't want grimdark shit, I am literally screwed and have been for pretty much my whole life (outside of Mask of the Phantasm, the only good theatrically released Batman movie in my opinion). DC is a big universe, but if most of your favorite characters get fucked over, it doesn't matter. The big names keep being given to assholes like Snyder or completely out of place people like Nolan.

Sure, I'm excited for The Suicide Squad, the potential Aquaman and Shazam sequels, and possibly the Black Adam and Flash films, but I don't see any Superman or Batman related films being made for people who don't want to watch dark crap. Wonder Woman has been ruined by an incompetent director/writing/casting, so even the one good part of the live action DC Trinity isn't good anymore. I am a comic fan whose favorite characters are usually the B-listers, and I like a lot of characters in general, but that doesn't mean that I don't get pissed off that DC doesn't put out better stuff. It really hurts when most of my favorites either will never show up (like Power Girl) or get royally fucked over (I will never forgive DC for what they did with Cassandra Cain's name, even Snyder wasn't that much of a comic hating prick, and he killed off Jimmy Olsen with a bullet to the head).

Plus The TV stuff is dead, and the streaming stuff is crap. The Flash is struggling to stay good, and every other CW show is complete shit (Batwoman was ok, but the creators don't understand the concept of re-casting and so its not even Batwoman anymore). Doom Patrol was a one season wonder, Stargirl was nothing but giant fuck you to the JSA, Titans is the worst live action DC thing ever created (and I'm including Snyder's stuff and films like Catwoman in that statement), harley Quinn was complete garbage (and has some of the worst voice acting in a DC cartoon), and Young Justice Outsiders was an absolutely embarrassing follow up to an awesome show, with writing so terrible the only thing worse was the almost hilariously cheap animation.

It is a terrible time to be a DC fan, really. The comics are in the toilet, and most of the media adaptations range from crap to infuriating crap, and the few exceptions to that are literally years away from coming out. The quantity of DC stuff is absolutely meaningless, especially when the quality of most of it is so low.
Click to expand...
Yaaawwwnn.
 
kirk55555 said:
God forbid people want movies that they could like. If I like Batman and want a movie starring him but don't want grimdark shit, I am literally screwed and have been for pretty much my whole life (outside of Mask of the Phantasm, the only good theatrically released Batman movie in my opinion). DC is a big universe, but if most of your favorite characters get fucked over, it doesn't matter. The big names keep being given to assholes like Snyder or completely out of place people like Nolan.

Sure, I'm excited for The Suicide Squad, the potential Aquaman and Shazam sequels, and possibly the Black Adam and Flash films, but I don't see any Superman or Batman related films being made for people who don't want to watch dark crap. Wonder Woman has been ruined by an incompetent director/writing/casting, so even the one good part of the live action DC Trinity isn't good anymore. I am a comic fan whose favorite characters are usually the B-listers, and I like a lot of characters in general, but that doesn't mean that I don't get pissed off that DC doesn't put out better stuff. It really hurts when most of my favorites either will never show up (like Power Girl) or get royally fucked over (I will never forgive DC for what they did with Cassandra Cain's name, even Snyder wasn't that much of a comic hating prick, and he killed off Jimmy Olsen with a bullet to the head).

Plus The TV stuff is dead, and the streaming stuff is crap. The Flash is struggling to stay good, and every other CW show is complete shit (Batwoman was ok, but the creators don't understand the concept of re-casting and so its not even Batwoman anymore). Doom Patrol was a one season wonder, Stargirl was nothing but giant fuck you to the JSA, Titans is the worst live action DC thing ever created (and I'm including Snyder's stuff and films like Catwoman in that statement), harley Quinn was complete garbage (and has some of the worst voice acting in a DC cartoon), and Young Justice Outsiders was an absolutely embarrassing follow up to an awesome show, with writing so terrible the only thing worse was the almost hilariously cheap animation.

It is a terrible time to be a DC fan, really. The comics are in the toilet, and most of the media adaptations range from crap to infuriating crap, and the few exceptions to that are literally years away from coming out. The quantity of DC stuff is absolutely meaningless, especially when the quality of most of it is so low.
Click to expand...

If you don't like what's being presented, the problems lie with you, not the content on offer.
 
DigificWriter said:
If you don't like what's being presented, the problems lie with you, not the content on offer.
Click to expand...
I think there's a need to recognize when material isn't for a person.
For me, I just don't watch it. The last Batman movie I watched was the Dark Knight. The rest hasn't interested me. I don't keep watching stuff that I hope will get my interest. There's plenty of other Batman stuff for me to utilize to scratch that itch.
 
crookeddy said:
Isn't mask of phantasm actually a really dark movie...
Click to expand...
IDK that's it's dark; but overall it's very disjointed and IMO made too much use of 'flashback' sequences, to the point it really interfered with the flow of the story they were telling overall. It's not bad, but no, I wouldn't call it a pinnacle of DC based films animated or live action. (YMMV).
 
kirk55555 said:
That is ridiculous. Shit is shit. Pretending that everything is good and we should never complain or want better is asinine.
Click to expand...

No-one is "pretending" anything.

Things like the DCEU and the Arrowverse might not appeal to you, but they do appeal to other people, and all of the time you waste trying to convince others that only your viewpoint matters could be spent immersing yourself in things that do appeal to you.

So, again, the problem lies with you, not the content on offer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top