DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by dahj, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Thank you. I was beginning to think I was imagining the inuendo of comments about leaks and such. It comes across "boy, wouldn't it be a shame if it just happened to leak. Whatever could we do? Might as well watch it, right?" :shrug:

    I get it. There are a lot of emotions tied up in such projects. I'm sympathetic but I'm also not blind to the realities of what a leak implies either.
     
  2. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nothing. It implies absolutely nothing. WB will not be punished for violating tax code because they won't be making a profit. They won't be going after the perpetrator. Just look at Snyder. Completely victimless crime.
     
  3. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Since @Kai "the spy" insists on denying that people in this thread were openly calling for WB employees to break the law and leak the footage, I present the following:
    ***
    I could keep going, but I think I've made my point.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    If so, the rumors are exaggerating it. What was reported was that it was considered inadequate by feature film standards because it looked more like a TV movie, which, really, it pretty much was, since it was meant for streaming release. Nobody said it was unwatchably bad, just that it wasn't up to the standard of production values they were judging it by.


    I'm not saying anything of the sort. I just don't understand the attitude that leaking the film is some kind of shocking, horrific, unprecedented crime that would inevitably bring ruin and despair to whomsoever dared to commit it. It seems like an overly melodramatic and exaggerated take on the concept. And really, I find it strange that people here are more outraged at the prospect of a film being leaked than at the way David Zaslav is slashing the company apart and firing almost everyone non-white and cancelling people's films without even telling them and so forth. There is plenty here that deserves outrage. The prospect of a film being leaked seems trivial in comparison.
     
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well I don't see it as any of those things, so I'll be sure to let those who think so know. I just think it's unreasonable and illegal and that bothers me that apparently rule breaking gets treated so cavalierly. How important this to people will vary no doubt. If it leaks then I'll be annoyed, rather than outraged or horrified or whatever.

    As for Zaslav...
    I find this more angering. Which is why WB doesn't get my money. Pretty much done with them because I see the direction they are going as one that will result in the destruction of the company. That's more tragic to me. That actually does outrage me. But, that I have little say in the matter over, beyond on spending money on WB products any more.
     
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  6. Mage

    Mage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And that's ok for those who are ok with that.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    It's inappropriate to make assumptions about other people's feelings or intentions in a debate. You should focus on the facts, not on what you believe people think or feel about them. What I'm saying is that the facts show that many things have been leaked without bringing down dire legal consequences on the leakers, so it seems factually unsupported to insist that such a thing would be bound to happen here. That is not about my opinions or beliefs, it's about objective reality. Reality does not alter itself to conform to our wishes for it, so what I believe or want is utterly irrelevant to the question of what the evidence demonstrates.
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Fair enough.

    I'm more amused by the wish for it to leak at this point. It bothers me, but that's my thing not anyone else's.

    I don't think it's "dire legal consequences" but I do think there will be consequences. More my question for those posting is that are they wanting to wish those consequences upon the person who leaks it for the sake of their entertainment? Even if it doesn't happen. Why is the risk deemed worth it in this case?

    I'm less concerned about "objective reality" and more curious as to the perceptions of individuals who think that a film is worth the leak. I'm curious as to the perspectives on the matter, why it would be so important for it to leak. To delve a little bit further in my perspective, my subjective reality, I find following rules important. So, to me, the suggestions and wishes for leaks cuts against what I value. @Kai "the spy" has done well enough to share perspectives from the artists and production teams and that this has an emotional impact on them. While I don't get it, as it is very alien thinking to me, I appreciate people sharing their perspectives.

    You are probably right-the consequences are probably minor. Nor do I think it is a heinous crime. But, for me, it rubs me the wrong way. That's my perspective, not objective reality.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2022
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  9. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There are many on this board that can pass for corporate plants, but the only explanation for your existence is that you are a corporate plant. So who's paying you?
     
  10. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Who is wishing consequences on anyone? Do I wish consequences on the stuntmen that make a movie for my entertainment? Or the theater workers who brave traffic for my entertainment? Or the factory workers who make the snacks for my refreshment? Why is it only the release of this movie that sparks this concern?
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It isn't. It's currently topical in this conversation. Believe me, much of my mind is given to frustration and concern at consequences for people. That's part of my job though is helping people explore consequences.
     
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  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    It's obviously ludicrous to expect any reasonable person to wish dire consequences upon another. Of course that isn't what they want. They're just understandably upset that the movie was cancelled for such arbitrary reasons and wishing there were a way around it.
     
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  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'll rephrase: why wish for a leak that could carry potential consequences?

    I'm not trying to be mean spirted-I just cannot wrap my mind around this concept.
     
  14. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If they want to do it and risk the consequences that's on them. I have no moral obligation not to watch once they choose to commit the act. And I am not worried about major consequences because I can't find any prior people suffering major consequences for such things.

    Anyway, I've stated that the movie as it currently is, would be strictly an academic watch, not an entertainment one. They might as well just release the script, it will have a similar effect.
     
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is where you and I will agree to disagree then. Thank you for putting it so succinctly.
     
  16. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In my culture (Soviet era Ukranian) people watch pretty much 100% of content via piracy. Its considered ethical to help someone find pirated content. Most would find the American attitude about it completely baffling. Now I spent my whole life here so I understand both perspectives, but remain in the middle of the issue.
     
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  17. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Admiral Admiral

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    On the consumer side? Of course there is. Here we have in the Batgirl movie a piece of art. That is not a judgement of quality, that is simply acknowledging a work in a medium considered an artform, in this case film. This piece of art is the product of labor from very passionate people working in the field of said artform. A piece of art, mind you, of significant meaning to whole subcultures, whether it be the Latin-American community, the LGBTQ community, or the subculture of superhero fandom. It means a lot to the creators to have their work seen, or even just be able to see it themselves in the future (as seen with the directors discovering they couldn't access the footage on the work server when they were trying to save it).
    On the other hand, we have a new boss coming in and cancelling a 90 million dollar production that a lot of people were looking forward to in order to write off what I heard was 20 million dollars in taxes.

    And, as @crookeddy has pointed out, there would be no financial damage to WB/D if there was a leak. No, they don't get paid, but they weren't going to, anyway, by their own choice. Which is one of the reasons such leaks so rarely result in legal action, as @Christopher pointed out. This isn't classic movie piracy where a movie that is either already released or will soon be released is copied and shared/sold in direct competition to the legally released version, because there is no legally released version.

    So, while it may be legally clear-cut, morally it is absolutely debatable. My personal view on the matter, if there's no damage to the "victim", then it isn't really a victim, and there was no moral crime.
    And, again, they chose not to make money off of it. They could have. Netflix and Prime would have probably loved to have a Batgirl movie featuring Michael Keaton's Batman. Instead the decision was made that, no, nobody can ever be allowed to see it.

    It may also have been a different story if the public had never learned about the movie. But they announced it, the teased us with a lot of marketing, including promo pictures of the lead actress in full costume.

    Again, hypothetical and purely speculative.

    But, you know, those images Snyder illegally leaked, did you look at them?

    It scored similarly "low" as other movies that have been released to great acclaim, like the It movies, which went on to be very popular and make a lot of money.

    But a source of the initial New York Post article described the movie as "unspeakable" (I previously misremembered that as "unwatchabel", but "unspeakable" is hardly better) and "irredeemable", which is simply hard to imagine, which is why it suggests that there is something else going on. The reports that mostly people of color and other minorities have been fired and/or had their projects cancelled certainly does throw a certain light on comments like that, considering the star iss Latin-American, her co-star is trans, and the directors are of Moroccan descent.
     
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  18. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Can we start whining about Scoob being cancelled now? It seems like it was closer to completion than Batgirl.
     
  19. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Admiral Admiral

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    Okay, so you found some, but that goes back to what I previously argued: These arguments were not made in the expectation that there would be any legal consequences, and even if that were the case, it is a ridiculous assumption that any such calls in this thread would actually reach the "intended recepient" of a person who has access to the movie. What all these posts in this thread amount to is an expression of frustration and a desire to see the movie, and nothing more.
     
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  20. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This explains so much.

    It also raises some disturbing questions about foreign attitudes towards the sovereignty of laws, restrictions, and guidelines.

    Also, in the interest of full disclosure, I do engage or have engaged in activities like file-sharing, the writing of fanfiction, and video game emulation, all of which, by their very nature, disregard certain laws regarding copyright and trademark, but do so knowing that I'm voluntarily opening myself up to the legal consequences associated with disregarding said laws should I find myself targeted by the copyright and trademark holders/owners of the music I download, the video games I emulate, and the IPs from which the works of fanfiction I write are derived.

    Openly advocating or expecting people to break laws related to copyright and trademark as if they somehow have an obligation to do so is entirely at odds with a respect for or at least an acknowledgment of the sovereignty of laws.

    The post from @crookeddy that I've quoted and responded to above directly contravenes this argument.