DC Comics Ongoing Discussion

[kirk55555]

Just finished a reread of Crisis on Infinite Earths. Its still a masterpiece, not just the best event comic ever made but just an amazing book in general. I still get chills when the Anti-Monitor first shows his face, and during moments like Supergirl and Flash's sacrifices. Also George Perez was on his artistic A-game the entire time, not only is the art great in general but he might be the best artist ever when it comes to drawing large groups of pre-established characters (which was something he really liked doing, from what I remember of an old interview with him). A 10/10 book, and I'd say a must read.

It is so obvious how badly both Countdown to Final crisis and Scott Snyder's BS Death metal retcons don't work at all with the original COIE, which had definitive (and well written) origins for the Universe, Monitor and Anti-Monitor. I don't know how anyone could read COIE and then tolerate any of Snyder's junk especially, its like letting a particularly dumb 4 year old draw over an original van Gogh or da Vinci painting.

I'm now reading The History of the DC Universe, the Wolfman/Perez direct follow up to COIE that tells the history of the new single universe all in one place, and its a really fun informational book even if it was probably at least partially out of date within a year or two of publication. It has given me some information about the Post Crisis Universe that I never knew, and some characters I'd never even heard of, which is a fun experience at this point. My copy also has a great Alex Ross cover, which goes well with the amazing Alex Ross cover of the COIE TPB.

 

[The Realist]

While I don't think as highly of CoIE as an overall narrative as you do (though its importance and influence, for good and ill, cannot be denied), Supergirl's death is a hugely effective and emotional moment. That close-up of her eye as she realizes what's coming ("Oh, no"), and her final words to Superman (particularly the way she doesn't ask him if she was brave, but affirms it for herself -- she knows she was, without question), get me every damn time.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

DC actually just started a series of facsimile editions of the entire CoIE series with a monthly release schedule. While I already have the Tpb, I'm looking forward to re-reading this series in this way.

 

[The Realist]

I have the Deluxe Edition hardcover of the series, which is my favorite format for reading graphic novels. A little oversized, giving the artwork some extra room to breathe, but not as unwieldy as Absolutes.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

I have Marv Wolfman's signature in my collected edition. I was going to get George Perez but the line was too long and I wanted to watch The Walking Dead panel. So i figured I would get it next time. Shortly afterwards, he was diagnosed with cancer and quit most public appearances. Should have stuck out the line a little longer.

 

[kirk55555]

So I've been reading some Batman, specifically the Second Chances TPB (as prep to rereading Death in the Family, the Second Chances TPB includes Jason Todd's post Crisis origin and early adventures as Robin), and I have to say reading mid 80s post COIE Batman has really helped me remember why I like the character. In modern comics Batman can't go two seconds without running into some new secret organization or conspiracy that will change everything he knows about Gotham, or he'll have an ally die or he'll lose his wealth/gain it back, etc. Basically we don't live in the era of well written standalone Batman stories being anything but a rarity, and reading this older stuff is just great. Its Batman being Batman, but the stories are about him and the crimes he's solving, not whatever city/worldwide emergency that is going to blow up Batman's life next.

The good thing about it being in the 80s/Post crisis though is that the writing is a lot more sophisticated then the Silver Age stuff, so while a lot of it is standalone you get a lot of great stories with good characterization and there is the occasional serialized element added to spice things up.

For example, I just read Batman #414, where Batman tires (and fails) to catch a serial killer who is killing women and dumping their bodies into dumpsters, Along the way he saves a woman from a burning building and becomes (non-romantic) friends with her as Bruce Wayne, just for her to be murdered by that killer, which shakes him up emotionally so bad he completely screws up trying to catch and capture the killer. Its a bit "women in refrigerators" I guess, but as a one shot story showing how Batman's emotions can effect things its very powerful, and makes the reader care about whats happening. I think this killer actually comes back later in the run so I'll be checking out those issues, but I just wanted to mention it because its a standout story of a type that I feel we don't get much of anymore.Even if it didn't have a follow up the issue still had a beginning, middle and end, and it was well paced. Nowadays it feels like no one can tell a story in comics in less then four issues, and Batman never really gets time in his main comics to just be Batman and protect Gotham.

Anyway these are just some thoughts I had. As for the comics in the TPB I've been reading overall, Jason really isn't a bad Robin, but I guess he can be a bit abrasive and him dying is probably worth it for the stories that come out of the event. Also I didn't know that Jim Starlin did DC work but he's very solid on Batman, I've always associated him with Marvel Cosmic stuff just he does good work for DC, too.

 

[the G-man]

So I've been reading some Batman, specifically the Second Chances TPB (as prep to rereading Death in the Family, the Second Chances TPB includes Jason Todd's post Crisis origin and early adventures as Robin), and I have to say reading mid 80s post COIE Batman has really helped me remember why I like the character. In modern comics Batman can't go two seconds without running into some new secret organization or conspiracy that will change everything he knows about Gotham, or he'll have an ally die or he'll lose his wealth/gain it back, etc. Basically we don't live in the era of well written standalone Batman stories being anything but a rarity, and reading this older stuff is just great. Its Batman being Batman, but the stories are about him and the crimes he's solving, not whatever city/worldwide emergency that is going to blow up Batman's life next.

Yeah, I miss first fifty or so years of largely standalone stories where Batman was a detective who solved crimes with a combination of brains and brawn and the gadgets were more James Bond than Tony Stark.

 

[theenglish]

I just read Absolute Power #1--and who appears but The Elongated Man! <very briefly in a group panel and not a spoiler for the story> Is this the first time we've seen Ralph since the 52 series? Did he die in that series or did he just retire and wander off?--can't remember.

 

[the G-man]

I just read Absolute Power #1--and who appears but The Elongated Man! <very briefly in a group panel and not a spoiler for the story> Is this the first time we've seen Ralph since the 52 series? Did he die in that series or did he just retire and wander off?--can't remember.

Ralph has been rendered more or less obsolete by Plastic Man.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Ralph has been rendered more or less obsolete by Plastic Man.

Yet the bats, supers, arrows and especially the flashes are constantly tripping over each other.

 

[kirk55555]

I just read Absolute Power #1--and who appears but The Elongated Man! <very briefly in a group panel and not a spoiler for the story> Is this the first time we've seen Ralph since the 52 series? Did he die in that series or did he just retire and wander off?--can't remember.

He was brought back for the New 52 Secret Six book written by Gail Simone, where he was given Plastic man's shapeshifting powers for some reason (IRL it was to keep his identity as Ralph Dibny a secret for awhile, it makes little sense in story), and Sue Dibny (who was also alive) had amnesia and was dating (implied having sex with) The Riddler, because (while I generally really like her as a writer) sometimes Gail Simone goes way too far. The book isn't very good, but anything that rejects the very existence of Identity Crisis at least has that going for it. I don't know if either Ralph or Sue have shown up since then, but at the very least they should both be alive and the events of Identity Crisis aren't relevant in the New 52/Rebirth/Dawn of DC stuff.

Ralph has been rendered more or less obsolete by Plastic Man.

Thats like saying that Superman is rendered obsolete by Shazam. Elongated Man is at his core a detective, and generally implied to be better then even Batman at that specific skillset. He's also a loyal husband and a bit of a goof. Plastic Man has basically no similarities to Elongated Man outside of vaguely similar powers, and even then Elongated Man has to take a fruit based formula periodically to have his powers, and (until the new 52) Ralph couldn't shapeshift.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

While not playing a major role, Ralph was featured in Doomsday Clock and the Leviathan story arc, so he seems to be at a state in his existence where he mainly appears in a crowd of superheroes in big crossover events.

 

[the G-man]

Thats like saying that Superman is rendered obsolete by Shazam. Elongated Man is at his core a detective, and generally implied to be better then even Batman at that specific skillset. He's also a loyal husband and a bit of a goof. Plastic Man has basically no similarities to Elongated Man outside of vaguely similar powers, and even then Elongated Man has to take a fruit based formula periodically to have his powers, and (until the new 52) Ralph couldn't shapeshift.

Allow me to clarify: Ralph has been rendered obsolete by Plastic Man in the mind of the DC editorial, who don't see him as anything but an imitation of the original even though, as you point out, he's a unique character in other ways.

 

[theenglish]

While not playing a major role, Ralph was featured in Doomsday Clock and the Leviathan story arc, so he seems to be at a state in his existence where he mainly appears in a crowd of superheroes in big crossover events.

Thank you. I didn't really follow those stories closely. (That's not entirely true--I actually read Doomsday Clock, but it took so long to come out that I remember very little of it.)

 

[Kai "the spy"]

News ahead of SDCC, DC has released promo art for their All In initiative, presenting a first look at the Absolute DC versions of the trinity:

Bleeding Cool: Darkseid Will Divide Absolute And Classic DC Universes For DC All-In

DC also announced Batman & Robin: Year One, a 12-issue series from writer Mark Waid and artist Chris Samnee, to launch in October:

Bleeding Cool: Mark Waid & Chris Samnee Launch Batman And Robin: Year One in October

 

[kirk55555]

Well Absolute DC's Trinity looks about as edgy as I'd expect given the people involved. I've always hated the idea of Batman as a slab of muscle, he's much more of a Ninja, but the absolute version literally looks like Liefeld's Captain America in a Batman suit. If you told me that the Absolute DC imprint exists to quarantine all the terrible writers/artists that DC can't just fire for some reason I'd believe you.

 

[theenglish]

The Absolute characters just look ugly...and TBH, very 90's-ish. I will be surprised if this project is in any way successful. In fact, I'm wondering if the Absolute versions will even be around a year or two from now. Also, is that promo art, in fact, a spoiler for the Absolute Power event?

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Announcement video for All-In with Scott Snyder and Joshua Williamson:

 

[The Realist]

News ahead of SDCC, DC has released promo art for their All In initiative, presenting a first look at the Absolute DC versions of the trinity:

Wow. Those Absolute DC versions are ... yeah.

I mean, I give zero shits about Batman, so whatever. I don't care much more about Wonder Woman, but the tatted-up look with the gigantic Guts broadsword mainly looks really try-hard. And I dunno WTF is up with that Superman design either, but who am I kidding -- I'll buy it anyways.

(I have to say, though, some fans have already left with me with a bad taste in my mind re: Absolute Supes. Some of them are positively salivating with the hope it will finally get rid of that old ball-and-chain, Lois Lane, so Clark can start swinging his womanizing dick around like any self-respecting Superman should. )

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Since they're not around to replace the original versions, as the main DCU will still go on, I don't really mind that much that they are this much different and "kewl". I'll keep an open mind.

(I have to say, though, some fans have already left with me with a bad taste in my mind re: Absolute Supes. Some of them are positively salivating with the hope it will finally get rid of that old ball-and-chain, Lois Lane, so Clark can start swinging his womanizing dick around like any self-respecting Superman should. )

Wtf? Even Zack Snyder knew better than that. Mind you, as I said above, I wouldn't mind them doing something totally different as the proper version's still around, but still.