David Gerrold's Post- Fascinating

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Vger23, Mar 17, 2015.

  1. plynch

    plynch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Location:
    Outer Graceland
    I'm not so sure Star Trek is liberal. People getting along is not necessarily liberal.

    Especially if we think of liberalism in the original free-market sense. Which of course most people don't.

    But in TOS (my first love, mind you) Kirk imposes his will on societies he doesn't appreciate. "Stagnant" ones (in his opinion) where everyone is -- perish the thought -- actually happy instead of struggling. Archons, Apple, and Paradise come immediately to mind. I don't think of that as particularly liberal.

    Nor do I see a lot of forced modern conservatism in later Trek. The militarism of Nick Meyer? In INS don't they rebel against the plan to force the indigenous out of Shangri-la?

    The more I contemplate this FB post, the more it seems vaguely cantankerous, which of course it is Mr. Gerrold's right to do/be. I do it all the time.

    Best wishes to him and y'all --
     
  2. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Location:
    T'Girl
    A Private Little War is a very pro-Vietnam intervention story, surprising given Roddenberry position on the war, of course he didn't write the episode.

    Masterpiece Society (TNG) carried a anti-abortion message from the character of LaForge. The ENT one where Trip became pregnant had some pro-life dialog as well.

    :)
     
  3. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Location:
    Prepping for the next #MidtermVariant
    A similar notion exists in TNG where the crew would discover a "backwards culture", engaging in religious worship or some-such, and the crew throwing the Prime Directive to the Four Winds. "Justice" and "Who Watches the Watchers" come to mind here. Arguably, a very liberal stance against a religious culture regardless of what damage and social contamination it might do. Happens on both sides of the political spectrum, I'm afraid.
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Confederation of Earth
    In those societies, people are happy because they are pretty much forced to be so. They are not ALLOWED to feel anything else.

    Better to struggle and have a choice in doing so, than to be happy because you're living in a bubble.
     
  5. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    Actually, he did. Don Ingalls wrote the original story and teleplay, but Roddenberry did an extensive rewrite that resulted in him getting sole credit for the teleplay.
     
  6. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Location:
    California
    It seems there are a lot of conservative fans of Star Trek. Or at least fans that have anti-liberal views.

    Apparently they watch Trek like everyone else, but are really bothered by certain "liberal" ideas.

    That same sex kiss from Rejoined got a large number of hate calls. One station in the south is said to have removed the episode.

    And for Voyager, Paramount got death and bomb threats because of the decision to have a woman captain.

    From all this, one conclusion I draw is that Trek wants to be liberal, (and usually is) but has to make compromises--silently cater to certain conservative views.
     
  7. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Location:
    Sickbay, dammit.
    Those people aren't "conservative," they're whack jobs--and there are plenty of those on all sides. ;)
     
  8. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Enterprise bowling alley
    The "is Star Trek liberal vs conservative argument" is, in my humble opinion, just as ill-conceived and useless as the "Star Trek stance on religion" argument.

    Regardless of Rodenberrys stance, or the stances of the actors, writers, etc...Star trek does a wonderful job of showing you BOTH SIDES of the coin and provoking thoughtful contemplation on either perspective. Anyone who tries to say that Star Trek was one thing or another is simply trying to rationalize their own beliefs. Star Trek rarely tells us how to think (which is the huge misconception a lot of fans make). It simply encourages us to do so while enjoying some great action-adventure-character stuff.

    The only thing it cosistently did for sure (or at least attempted to do) was portray a positive future where tolerance and diversity have generally been embraced.
     
  9. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Enterprise bowling alley
    +1
     
  10. Green Shirt

    Green Shirt Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Location:
    Here

    Just like their farts. :devil:
     
  11. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Location:
    Prepping for the next #MidtermVariant
    +2 QFT :techman:
     
  12. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Location:
    Lost in the EU expanse with a nice cup of tea
    Having dropped back recently and catching up on posts, the beauty of this place compared to others is that it has such a rich and diverse array of wit, humour, warmth, charm, fierce intelligence and a-holes. Just like Trek :).
     
  13. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Talking about "liberal" and "conservative" Trekkies is always such a slippery slope, though I acknowledge that Gerrold's post is what set it off.

    One thing I do find interesting in this thread is how "both" types of Trekkies (as if there were only those two politically) have pretty vocal TrekBBS members when it comes to loving TOS/criticizing nuTrek. Talk about reaching across the aisle!
     
  14. Foxhot

    Foxhot Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Location:
    hans gruber
    TOS and STID both deal with ethical conflicts and the occasional can of Vulcan whupass, so I'd think both should have crossover appeal. Half a loaf beats none.
     
  15. marlboro

    marlboro Guest

    I hate politics.
     
  16. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Location:
    T'Girl
    Or similarly when it comes to loving DS9/criticizing Voyager.

    Finding that conservationism matches you're own world view doesn't automatically mean that you are "anti-liberal." Simply means you don't support liberal philosophy.

    :)
     
  17. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Location:
    Sickbay, dammit.
    One might find that a lot of people labeled as "conservative" are actually more Libertarian than anything else. As I grow older, I find that I like labels less and less, and prefer to take each person on his own merit.

    Unfortunately, as time goes by there are more and more labels to deal with. A lot of them come from Trek "fans," who should logically be going in the opposite direction.

    Most times I just shrug my shoulders and move on.
     
  18. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Location:
    California
    ^
    ^ True. I thought twice right after posting about whether I'm being unfair to conservatives, or whether it even was conservatives who were behind the complaints and threats.

    I then added 'anti-liberal' for a couple of reasons--one, that's the best way I know how to identify a way of thinking which may not be conservative at all, but is obviously against liberal ideas.

    The other reason is, I've seen a lot of comments in forums where a person, is call a "libtard" or just liberal simply for expressing a view.

    That leaves the impression that the person doing the name calling must consider him or herself a conservative, because of how freely that word is thrown around.

    (One of the complainers to the episode Rejoined, talked about family values and such)

    Either way, nutjob or wingnut sexist or bigot would do in this case :p
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  19. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Enterprise bowling alley
    Someone else said it well: labels are the start of prejudice.
     
  20. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Enterprise bowling alley
    double post.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015