David Carradine’s Legacy of Shame

[Reverend]

It's in very poor taste to react to a human being's death by using it as an opportunity to vilify the person in service of one's own agenda. Kung Fu was a product of its time, and it was a major step forward for American television to have a show whose protagonist was supposed to be Asian even if the actor wasn't, and which exposed American audiences to Asian philosophy. Equality is achieved one step at a time, and it's misguided to condemn early steps because they didn't go as far as the later efforts they made possible.

Exactly.

+1

The fact is that he was an actor by profession. And actors have to act if they want to eat. Only a douchebag would blame Carradine for the fact that the system was what it was back then. There was a job and he took it. End of story.

I have to agree, the OP is really out of order.

 

[Zachary Smith]

So the point of the OP is to blame David Carradine personally for commercial and institutional racism in the early 1970's because he accepted an acting job on a network TV show.

Wow! Just . . . wow . . . !

 

[Teelie]

Well the person he quoted, and presumably everyone who agreed with them.

 

[Rii]

Am I the only one who has no idea who the fuck this guy is?

 

[Aragorn]

Not a fan of the Kung Fu TV series (there were two) or Kill Bill? He was Bill.

 

[Rii]

Not a fan of the Kung Fu TV series (there were two) or Kill Bill? He was Bill.

Oh, I've seen Kill Bill. He had an interesting voice.

 

[Agent Richard07]

I heard the other night that he felt bad about getting the role that was supposed to go to Bruce Lee.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

It's in very poor taste to react to a human being's death by using it as an opportunity to vilify the person in service of one's own agenda. Kung Fu was a product of its time, and it was a major step forward for American television to have a show whose protagonist was supposed to be Asian even if the actor wasn't, and which exposed American audiences to Asian philosophy. Equality is achieved one step at a time, and it's misguided to condemn early steps because they didn't go as far as the later efforts they made possible.

Exactly.

+1

The fact is that he was an actor by profession. And actors have to act if they want to eat. Only a douchebag would blame Carradine for the fact that the system was what it was back then. There was a job and he took it. End of story.

I suggest that everybody give the writer an earful at the original site.

 

[Griever]

*de-lurks*

Before you give the writer an earful and ruin the atmosphere at a really great website, read the entire post:

Anyway, it was an ignominious start to a career, and it went downhill from there. Carradine milked Kung Fu for as long as possible, and when the milk ran dry, he just squeezed harder, until blood dripped out of the metaphorical udders. He even did a series of Kung Fu workout videos. Quentin Tarantino capitalized on Kung Fu nostalgia by casting Carradine in that pretentious faux-ironic Asiaphile crapfest, Kill Bill. And a few years ago, Carradine did a series of Kung Fu-inspired Yellowbook.com commercials. Get it? Yellow Book? Wink wink, nudge nudge, vomit. In 2009, the heavily yellowfaced Carradine had a role in Crank 2 as a lecherous Chinese gangster named “Poon Dong”. Wink wink… and so on.

I don’t blame David Carradine for all the anti-Asian racism in America. But he had an important and highly visible role in a vicious feedback loop. Audiences identified with his performance of a calm, detached, self-important masculinity seemingly grounded in an exotic Asian tradition. He satisfied certain urges of the audience in that regard, and as he performed, he innovated, and created new and more refined stereotypes with extra layers of self-awareness and sophistication. His performances also worked to naturalize the desire of white people to appropriate the aspects of Asian culture they happened to find most appealing.

Kung Fu was the top of a slippery slope that led us to the whitewashing of Avatar.

And would such a piece have the same impact if he were living?

*re-lurks*

 

[Harvey]

His role in Crank: High Voltage was pretty ridiculous and offensive, but not outside of the tone of that film, in which every character and scene was by design ridiculous and offensive. However, in the context of Carradine's long career, it is a bit of a disturbing trend. The Yellowbook.com advertisements were/are especially stupid.

 

[Kelso]

I wonder what they'll say when Mickey Rooney dies.

 

[Harvey]

I wonder what they'll say when Mickey Rooney dies.

Hard to say. His performance in Breakfast at Tiffany's is far more offensive (in my opinion) than any single performance of Carradine's, but where Rooney has one role (correct me if I'm wrong on this) that is controversial, Carradine's legacy is one that was forged over many years out of many performances. And that might make it more lasting.

 

[Aragorn]

Kung Fu was the top of a slippery slope that led us to the whitewashing of Avatar.

So is there a double standard when it comes to making The Honeymooners all black for the movie?

 

[Griever]

So is there a double standard when it comes to making The Honeymooners all black for the movie?

Only if you believe in the reverse-racism straw man argument. Hollywood has a history of racism in portrayals and casting. The situation is so unbalanced that the occasional exception does not indicate a sea change in institutional issues.

 

[Amaris]

So is there a double standard when it comes to making The Honeymooners all black for the movie?

Only if you believe in the reverse-racism straw man argument. Hollywood has a history of racism in portrayals and casting. The situation is so unbalanced that the occasional exception does not indicate a sea change in institutional issues.

So it's okay that it happens to a white guy because it happens to black guys all the time? That kind of thing? I find that hard to justify. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Then again, I take a certain stance on race. When I see people play a certain race and they are not genetically a part of that race, my initial response is "Who gives a flying fuck?"

Seriously. OMG, an actor pretended to be someone he's not! Tar and feather him for his deceptive witchery! The racist!
I think people need to learn how to gain better control of what is and is not important. I simply have no respect for racemongers like the person quoted in the OP.

J.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kung Fu was the top of a slippery slope that led us to the whitewashing of Avatar.

So is there a double standard when it comes to making The Honeymooners all black for the movie?

Is that the same thing? Carradine was white man playing a someone who was part asian. The cast of the new Honeymooners were blacks playing characters who were black (even of the earlier versions were white).

That said, I had no problem with Carradine playing Caine. Of course was Bruce Lee just as "wrong" for the part since was fully Chinese?

 

[Zachary Smith]

I wonder if we need a real secret agent to play James Bond now. Hence forth only OJ Simpson and Robert Blake can play murderers. And don't even ask me how we'd fill the cast if someone wanted to make a Civil War epic--I mean, there are loads of veterans (assuming a veteran will suffice and we don't actually need someone who really DID fight in the Civil War) who can play soldiers--but there are NO REAL SLAVES left alive! Morgan Freeman and Denzil Washington--NO "Glory" for you! Just SHAME--how dare you liars play slaves when you were never REALLY slaves?

Fortunately, we should be able to see another Star Trek movie--there are dozens of people now who've been in space to play the "space people".

 

[Aragorn]

Kung Fu was the top of a slippery slope that led us to the whitewashing of Avatar.

So is there a double standard when it comes to making The Honeymooners all black for the movie?

Is that the same thing? Carradine was white man playing a someone who was part asian. The cast of the new Honeymooners were blacks playing characters who were black (even of the earlier versions were white).

He used Avatar as his example. So I compared The Honeymooners to Avatar. How is that not the same thing? They both have fictional characters that are now a different race in their second incarnations.

 

[Griever]

"Who gives a flying fuck?"

Well, I do. I guess I'm one of those race-mongers you despise so much.

How can I not give a flying fuck when minorities are grossly underrepresented in tv and movie roles?

How can I not give a flying fuck when the majority of those few roles that go to minorities play to stereotypes?

Those stereotypes reinforce perceptions of minorities and the deck is stacked against a change in that portrayal. Many of us live in self segregated communities and don't come in to contact with minorities in our social lives. Our perceptions of others are shaped by the limited contact we have and images we may see in mass media. Unfortunately as liberal as Hollywood is, they have no clue how to diversify and practice inclusion, which leads to whitewashing or bland token roles.

Positive roles are needed to combat stereotypes and Kung Fu could have provided a step forward after the debacles of Charlie Chan and Kato.

There's also a need for positive roles so that when young kids are playing in their backyards they can say I'm Batman, and not have his douchebag of a friend remind him that he's white and that the majority of minority superheroes suck.

That is why there is no equation between changing a white role to a minority role and vice versa. Hollywood has so much history of erasing minorities or subjugating them that the exception doesn't make much of an impact.

It may not seem important to white people who see people that look like them represented all over the television, but I certainly give a flying fuck.

 

[Zachary Smith]

"Who gives a flying fuck?"

Well, I do. I guess I'm one of those race-mongers you despise so much.

How can I not give a flying fuck when minorities are grossly underrepresented in tv and movie roles?

How can I not give a flying fuck when the majority of those few roles that go to minorities play to stereotypes?

Those stereotypes reinforce perceptions of minorities and the deck is stacked against a change in that portrayal. Many of us live in self segregated communities and don't come in to contact with minorities in our social lives. Our perceptions of others are shaped by the limited contact we have and images we may see in mass media. Unfortunately as liberal as Hollywood is, they have no clue how to diversify and practice inclusion, which leads to whitewashing or bland token roles.

Positive roles are needed to combat stereotypes and Kung Fu could have provided a step forward after the debacles of Charlie Chan and Kato.

There's also a need for positive roles so that when young kids are playing in their backyards they can say I'm Batman, and not have his douchebag of a friend remind him that he's white and that the majority of minority superheroes suck.

That is why there is no equation between changing a white role to a minority role and vice versa. Hollywood has so much history of erasing minorities or subjugating them that the exception doesn't make much of an impact.

It may not seem important to white people who see people that look like them represented all over the television, but I certainly give a flying fuck.

You're about thirty-five YEARS too late if your intent is in taking Carradine to task for this "offense". You may as well be complaining about Amos 'n
Andy or some of the truly tasteless depictions of some minorities from the 1930's or 1940's. At least Carradine's character WAS a positive role-model and the producers were right in their choices about what to do for making the show, "Kung Fu" popular. If not, we wouldn't be talking about it now.

Face it, especially at the time, far and away the majority of the television viewing audience was white. People DO tend to like to see shows about people who look like themselves (hence your own support of "minority representation"). Like it or not, there is, unfortunately a VERY real chance that if Caine HAD been played by an Asian, the show wouldn't have lasted and would be LONG forgotten by now. And what good would that have done? As it is, millions of people were introduce positively to certain Asian concepts and role-models via "Kung-fu". The show, and Carradine, did far more good than harm here.