Data's understanding of humanity.
- Thread starter SimpleLogic
- Start date
Maybe he was simply ignored at the academy by all the kids who tend to do that to social misfits. Then he turned to teachers/professors. After that, he gets posted to assignments where there are few people around, like that communication relay station in "Aquiel". He ups in rank purely on a science/engineering basis but not command - he's a goldshirt, no? Then Picard sees potential in him.
What I've never understood is how he could learn dozens of sign languages in a few minutes but couldn't master contractions. Does he have a problem with acronyms or portmanteaus (ie motel - motor hotel) as well? Dumb.
What I've never understood is how he could learn dozens of sign languages in a few minutes but couldn't master contractions. Does he have a problem with acronyms or portmanteaus (ie motel - motor hotel) as well? Dumb.
The only thing I don't like about the 'perhaps everyone avoided him' guess is that it seems to go against everything Starfleet stands for and makes only the Enterprise (and other series hero crews) seem like the only tolerant people in the Federation.
I do like the idea that he maybe studied and was posted with Vulcans a lot though, that would at least give some reason why he wasn't familiar with human emotion after all that time. That 20 year gap has me fascinated about just what he was doing.
I do like the idea that he maybe studied and was posted with Vulcans a lot though, that would at least give some reason why he wasn't familiar with human emotion after all that time. That 20 year gap has me fascinated about just what he was doing.
Maybe he had some kind of vocal auto-correct that wouldn't let him say them at all. Data was part cell phone
But it already has precedent with the Lal episode, where all the kids avoided her when Data sent her to school and it took Guinan and a bar job to get her to somewhat understand humanity. And I believe she had Data's knowledge and experiences downloaded into her as a jumping off point. So Data when young wasn't anywhere close to where Lal started out.
I've seen this with my brother, he went to school, and he was weird. The first few times, the kids tried to initiate with him, he reacted strangely and a bit standoffish and they just started avoiding him. It wasn't their fault.
I don't think humans will evolve away from their natural instinct in just 300 years. I could imagine a much less refined Data in Starfleet Academy, acting part abrupt (Soong said he used to run around naked before a modesty subroutine), and then part wikipedia and calculator. Throw in a few incidents of someone tossing a ball at him and him tossing it lightspeed several hundred yards away or stuff of that nature. And over time you'd have people treating him more as a machine because that's how he'd come off as. We don't even know how long he was in the academy. He probably could have read up on all the courses and passed them within a day. Did he graduate early or just have no steady class year? That could have contributed to it.
I like the idea of the vulcans too. Maybe they saw him as some type of idea of logic. I get the sense Captains assemble their teams, Data being the last pick among humans, went to the Vulcan team instead. Would have been interesting.
The longer he was on a Vulcan ship, the less interesting he became to human captains as he rose in rank because of the unknown factor. Cue Picard, who decided for whatever reason to take a chance on him and Data, being fashioned after a human and wanting to know emotion, also agreeing to change teams. Would explain why Data is still so stilted in certain respects.
Do we really ever learn any specifics about what Data was doing for those 20 years? Because I always assumed they had him basically locked away doing sciencey stuff in computer labs for most of that time. Having him work on really difficult problems. That kind of isolation might have been the root cause of his "lack" of development.
Though in terms of behind the scenes stuff, if I recall correctly Data was supposed to be some kind of alien invention that we would learn about, instead of being the work of Soong. So maybe the initial intention is that people in SF avoided him based on negative rumors about him being some alien thing that could turn on people at any second or something. I don't know. I never really thought about it, probably largely due to Brent Spiner just giving the character so much life.
Though in terms of behind the scenes stuff, if I recall correctly Data was supposed to be some kind of alien invention that we would learn about, instead of being the work of Soong. So maybe the initial intention is that people in SF avoided him based on negative rumors about him being some alien thing that could turn on people at any second or something. I don't know. I never really thought about it, probably largely due to Brent Spiner just giving the character so much life.
Not only those twenty years but his life before Starfleet, figuring out to adjust to other life forms would be cool to see rather than to hear about. I really wish we got more interaction of Data and Vulcans though and I would enjoy to see him working with them before the Enterprise.
Agreed. In some respects, Data is the inverse of a Vulcan: someone who has no emotions, yet desires them. But Vulcans, who have emotion, attempt to purge themselves of all emotion. Spock pretty much points that out in Reunion, actually.
As for Data possibly being around Vulcans in the lost 20 years prior to the Enterprise, I like to imagine that being the case. In fact, in Encounter at Farpoint...
Perhaps Data isn't simply making a statement about what is generally accepted about Vulcans, but some of it is personal opinion, based on his own dealings with Vulcans?
It is very possible that an an entirely different set of prejudices were in play against Data. We already see in present-day society how 'white privilege' shuts down social interaction for some people.
Nobody on TNG was whiter than Data. Poor fellow. At least no one ever snarled, "Check your albino privilege!" on screen. That would have been... well, beyond the pale is an unfortunate choice of words, I guess.
Nobody on TNG was whiter than Data. Poor fellow. At least no one ever snarled, "Check your albino privilege!" on screen. That would have been... well, beyond the pale is an unfortunate choice of words, I guess.
I could accept that he was locked away doing sciency stuff and computations and what not if he hadn't been 2nd officer on the flagship. Surely even Starfleet would not give out, or allow Picard to give out that position just because he was up for a scheduled promotion?
If he had learned much about human interaction in his earlier years they wouldn't have been able to make it a major character arc on the show so... seems like an easy explanation.
Why do we need an in-universe one?
Why do we need an in-universe one?
According to Memory Alpha, he was on the Trieste for at least 15 years going from ensign to lieutenant commander. "The Measure of a Man" was a second season episode, and he didn't amass that many medals that were presented at his trial in the short amount of time he had been on Enterprise, and I don't think you earn those kinds of medals doing lab work. I think he earned his second in command posting regardless of his development.
^Right. Besides, it's not as though he's ever shown to be completely nonfunctional in society. Being mostly computerish, it's feasible he might never have unearthed the levels of socialization that eludes him, until he has the right people in his life
I like to envision him excelling in his career, but possibly in the face of some bias or bigotry, & being somewhat excluded on a social level, enough to stunt his exposure to it. I mean, that weekly poker game alone would be enough to open him up to all sorts of new interrelations
The big leap that I attribute to Picard is that he might be the 1st person to allow Data to be in a position to potentially lead officers, as 2nd in command. That might've been a bold undertaking, but given Data's service record, not unreasonable. I imagine some folks thought Picard a little cuckoo for doing it, but there was really no reason to stand in the way of the choice. As for being decorated. We've seen 1st hand how Data's uniqueness can save the day
I like to envision him excelling in his career, but possibly in the face of some bias or bigotry, & being somewhat excluded on a social level, enough to stunt his exposure to it. I mean, that weekly poker game alone would be enough to open him up to all sorts of new interrelations
The big leap that I attribute to Picard is that he might be the 1st person to allow Data to be in a position to potentially lead officers, as 2nd in command. That might've been a bold undertaking, but given Data's service record, not unreasonable. I imagine some folks thought Picard a little cuckoo for doing it, but there was really no reason to stand in the way of the choice. As for being decorated. We've seen 1st hand how Data's uniqueness can save the day
Also, do we know anything about the Trieste?
Was it a small ship with a low amount of crew memebers? Were they Humans or other Federation members. If a Data spent many years in Starfleet serving with Vulcans, I could see his understanding of Humanity as somewhat limited, and that's not really a reach.
Was it a small ship with a low amount of crew memebers? Were they Humans or other Federation members. If a Data spent many years in Starfleet serving with Vulcans, I could see his understanding of Humanity as somewhat limited, and that's not really a reach.
That's a fair point, given that in Darmok, Data mentions that he has encountered 1,754 non-human races. That would mean a LOT of them were before he came aboard the Ent-D. Clearly, he got around in his other assignments
The Trieste was "too small, too slow" to be of help in reeling back the runaway E-D in "11001001". But I can't imagine a ship that wouldn't compare disadvantageously like that!
But since the Trieste was present at that starbase, yet not visible in the roughly one-third to one-half of the interior we got to see, "very small" might be an apt description. Perhaps Oberth class? (HD views into background graphics suggest both Merced and Yosemite classes as possibilities; we never saw the former, while a ship by the latter name looked like Oberth and might have spearheaded a subclass.)
I could well believe Data rising in rank without ever getting demanding command duties or much in the way of crew interaction. We do see high-ranking, non-commanding nerds in Trek a lot. Getting medals is a different thing, though. But "encountering races" might simply mean Data carefully counted everybody at the sports events and cocktail parties he attended. Wesley's tally might be more impressive, due to no real effort but just random factors.
Timo Saloniemi
But since the Trieste was present at that starbase, yet not visible in the roughly one-third to one-half of the interior we got to see, "very small" might be an apt description. Perhaps Oberth class? (HD views into background graphics suggest both Merced and Yosemite classes as possibilities; we never saw the former, while a ship by the latter name looked like Oberth and might have spearheaded a subclass.)
I could well believe Data rising in rank without ever getting demanding command duties or much in the way of crew interaction. We do see high-ranking, non-commanding nerds in Trek a lot. Getting medals is a different thing, though. But "encountering races" might simply mean Data carefully counted everybody at the sports events and cocktail parties he attended. Wesley's tally might be more impressive, due to no real effort but just random factors.
Timo Saloniemi
^Yeah, but Data refers to his non-human encounters in the context of their failure to communicate with the Tamarians in Darmok. I don't suppose it's concrete what he meant, but I always assumed he meant "Encountered" as it relates to them encountering the Tamarians, as part of a mission in Starfleet Service
Agreed. But it could also be argued that Data takes his "encounters" more seriously and literally than the average humanoid hero. Remember how he hit it off even with Commander Hutchkinson? Data might have put his superhuman processing speeds to good use in a cocktail party and learned more about a hundred species than Starfleet researchers in the preceding two centuries of study!
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
