Data's understanding of humanity.

[SimpleLogic]

I've recently been re-watching a lot of TNG, and Data's learning of humanity is of course a big character arc of the show. That got me wondering, since Data had already been in Starfleet for over 20 years, why wasn't he already more familiar with many of the things that he encounters in the episodes?

Did people just avoid him and never make friends with him all that time until the Enterprise? Did no other commanding officer or some kind of mentor attempt to help him understand? I know from a series standpoint we want to experience that with him so perhaps they should have made Data a Lt. or Lt.jg. with only a few years out of Starfleet so in essence he would have only been say 6 or 7 years old in terms of his activation time. and he could have easily made Lt. Cmdr. in quick time. (Like Geordi ultimately did)

Also it would have made more sense for Starfleet deciding after a few years to declare him property, rather than waiting 20+ yrs to bring it up.

 

[Kilana2]

According the novels it was Jean-Luc who discovered Data's real potential and he encouraged him to assert himself regarding jobs/assignments he really wanted to have instead of being reassigned according to Starfleets whims (assignments where he obviously had only few social interaction).

Some of his former collegues might have considered Data as machine with no need of hobbies, past time and friends. A machine that speaks and is able to work around the clock. Picard and the Enterprise crew were able to overcome these prejudices.

 

[Jedman67]

Rule of Plot

For all we know, Data was assigned to low-human interaction roles, or was transferred too frequently to make friends.

 

[Granola Gwen]

That actually makes me really sad that Data didn't have that much interaction with others or they didn't make the chance to reach out to him during those two decades.

 

[SimpleLogic]

That actually makes me really sad that Data didn't have that much interaction with others or they didn't make the chance to reach out to him during those two decades.

Yeah me too, it makes Starfleet's credo to seek out new life seem pointless if they are going to ignore it.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think Bruce Maddox and various Soongs are the only characters we ever met who Data knew personally before the beginning of the show. We never get a real glimpse of Data's prior relationships with humans.

He may have spent those years observing humans and doing what he's told without the confidence in his interpersonal abilities to initiate any kind of social relationships. Maybe it was his encounter with Tasha that gave him that confidence. Or maybe it just took that long for him to learn enough to interact on the level he did in TNG.

 

[Orphalesion]

According the novels it was Jean-Luc who discovered Data's real potential and he encouraged him to assert himself regarding jobs/assignments he really wanted to have instead of being reassigned according to Starfleets whims (assignments where he obviously had only few social interaction).

This isn't the novel subforum.

 

[Disco]

According the novels it was Jean-Luc who discovered Data's real potential and he encouraged him to assert himself regarding jobs/assignments he really wanted to have instead of being reassigned according to Starfleets whims (assignments where he obviously had only few social interaction).

This isn't the novel subforum.

No but it still adds to the discussion.

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

According the novels it was Jean-Luc who discovered Data's real potential and he encouraged him to assert himself regarding jobs/assignments he really wanted to have instead of being reassigned according to Starfleets whims (assignments where he obviously had only few social interaction).

This isn't the novel subforum.

And you don't need to be judge and critic.

 

[hux]

There's a few times in TNG when Data is entirely ignorant of certain human idioms which never made too much sense. Aside from being in contact with humans for a while, there is the simple fact that he clearly possesses programming that relates to language beyond simple grammar.

Picard: She's feeling blue.
Data: Her skin pigmentation has not altered according to my visual acuity, captain.

That sort of thing. I understand that it was a convenient way to demonstrate his story arc, learning process and and his non-humanity but it wasn't necessary.

 

[JesterFace]

It's true that sometimes Data's UN-understanding of certain phrases is not natural or understandable, but it's fun.

 

[Kilana2]

According the novels it was Jean-Luc who discovered Data's real potential and he encouraged him to assert himself regarding jobs/assignments he really wanted to have instead of being reassigned according to Starfleets whims (assignments where he obviously had only few social interaction).

This isn't the novel subforum.

This may not be the lit forum, but the discussion should be if you agree with that interpretation of Data's former experience with humans before his Enterprise assignment and if not, what your opinion is.
Orphalesion, you’re welcome to offer your opinion regarding the topic. And I will think twice before I post contents from the novels in non-novel-related threads again or at least tag them as spoilers for people who want to discuss, but aren’t interested in the novels or want to read them later. In case I use the spoiler function, you may as well ignore what’s inside. Other people might be interested.

 

[Orphalesion]

Sorry Kilana2, you are of course right. What I wrote had nothing to do with you and I should not have let out my frustration on you.

Sorry again. If I could take it back I would. Several posts that answered yours actually.

And I don't write that because you called me out on it but because I mean it. I am quite emberassed at my behaviour.

 

[Kilana2]

Back to topic. Data's job aboard Enterprise was a long-term assignment, that means he had time to settle down and make friends. His comrades went to the trouble to explain all the puns and sayings. No one bothered before, as I said before, he was considered a machine. For the Enterprise crew he became a friend. It wasn't always easy, especially not for Pulaski, who grudgingly accepted him in the end. Admittedly he also tried Picard's patience once in a while. Other superiors might not have been so patient with Data and his curiosity.

I'm well aware that some people here hate Vic Fontaine. But that's not my point. I'd like to have seen Data meeting Vic with his slang terms, at least Data from the first seasons.

 

[Kilana2]

Sorry Kilana2, tou are of course right. What I wrote had nothing to do with you and I should not have let out my frustration on you.

Sorry again.

No problem. I'm looking forward to more constructive posts from you - here and in other forums. We all have a bad moment. I had mine when I criticized a character too harshly - Christopher taught me indirectly how to criticize properly - I hope I've learned my lesson. Enjoy the discussions.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I've been pondering similar questions myself. In fact, I think in a lot of ways Data's senior position on board ship actually acts against using him for the far more interesting 'exploring humanity' angle.

In fact, I'd also agree with the earlier poster that suggested that Data should have been a junior lieutenant (in the Science Division) possibly on his first 'deep space assignment' and mainly only holding lieutenant rank due to the number of academic degrees he's got). Possibly a cross between Harry Kim and early Bashir with a little Wesley thrown in.

- Shamrock Holmes

 

[Mojochi]

I think what's incongruent isn't simply that he doesn't seem to have much experience with socializing, relating, & catching onto idioms, etc... It's feasible that being what he is, he could've wafted about postings without much interaction for that duration, with no one having any trust in him enough to give him chances to advance, or distinguish himself, & him not having the necessary spiritual drive to undertake what was needed to achieve them on his own, but the difficulty comes from him having risen to the position of 2nd officer onboard the fleet's superstar ship, & in fact is shown in S2 to have been decorated quite prestigiously

I mean clearly Picard liked to take in officers who had unusual backgrounds & records, & weren't the prime, by the book, candidates. Riker & Worf would seem to fit that bill, as well as Sito Jaxa & even Wesley. The only thing we know of the history with him & LaForge is he met him as a pilot & wanted him on his next assignment. A year into it, he's running engineering.

So we must assume Data did something to stand out as being worth having in that post, or at least worth being given a shot at it, that maybe nobody else but Picard would give him, but being decorated & upf for the posting would seem to suggest he had done SOMETHING pretty impressive, & yet we have to accept that despite having done that & he was still somehow naïve of interpersonal relations, & that really doesn't hold up. You don't go that far in life without some ability to interrelate

 

[The Old Mixer]

It's never explored, but it's possible that earlier in his development, Data was a lot more awkward and less human-acting than when he served on the Enterprise. He may have struggled for awhile to interact with humans at all.

 

[TheSubCommander]

Personally, I think the real world explanation is that the writers forgot about the fact Data had served in Starfleet over 20 years prior to his assignment on the Enterprise in TNG.

However, the only thing Data seemed lacking in the way of being deserving of the rank of LT Commander (and second officer) was his social awkwardness with HUMANS, but his other abilities (mental and physical) likely more than made up for that. Even in the real world, there are many professions can excel in, and you can be socially awkward. The few I can think of are the military, tech support, engineering, research fields, and other scientific fields. Perhaps that's the case with Data. Besides we really don't know where he served exactly. there are tons of species he could have served with, and distinguished himself. We have to remember in the beginning, Data was written as not having emotions. Put Data in a crowd of Vulcans, and he likely fits right in. He did with Spock, anyway. So maybe Data was assigned with Vulcans or other species that weren't so hard for Data to interact with.

Conversely, I think it is possible a "younger" Data may actually have acted very much like a Vulcan, so perhaps humans and other emotional, near human species may simply have treated Data like they would have treated a Vulcan: practiced tolerance, but didn't get too close to him, either. And during that 20+ years before the Enterprise assignent, it took his neural net to learn how to interact with humans, and approximate human behavior, without actually feeling it. But by the time Data came aboard the Enterprise, he had developed to the point where he was acting more human-like, where people started to treat him more like a human. That could explain Data's naivete because at that point, rather than acting more like a Vulcan, he was trying to simulate human behavior.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

We can also consider the cultural transformation of Starfleet between 2364 and 2375, that we experience as a result of the writers gradually moving away from the sterile Roddenberrian vision at the start of TNG and toward the more conflicted and criticized vision from the sequel series. In season one when we learn of how many years Data spent at each level you get the impression promotion was based on tenure which is what you might expect from a complacent culture not accustomed to conflict. Students were accepted based on competitive academics and promoted when it's their turn or their time. Data might have gotten his promotions because that's what happens when an officer checks all the right boxes. Later when the Borg and to a lesser extent the Romulans, and then finally the Dominion forced them out of that complacency and changed the attitude to want to make sure the most qualified officers arrived in the most sensitive positions.

What makes Data different from Vulcans or rather how Star Trek usually portrays them is that Vulcans do possess emotions and train themselves not to indulge them. Which almost makes Data the opposite of a Vulcan, as he does not possess emotions but takes any opportunity to indulge them.

 

[Nebusj]

It's never explored, but it's possible that earlier in his development, Data was a lot more awkward and less human-acting than when he served on the Enterprise. He may have struggled for awhile to interact with humans at all.

Good heavens, think what Less Socialized Data must have been like.

... Now wouldn't it have been a kick if it turned out all that time on the Enterprise Data was playing a prank based on what everybody expected an android to be like, and he had to go to his quarters to spend six hours every day cackling that nobody caught on yet?