Data's Mistake In Nemesis

[Starborn Dragon]

In Nemesis Data says:

I aspire, sir, to be better than I am. B-4 does not. Nor does Shinzon.



But I think he's missing something when he says this.


You see, the thing about people, is that we all develop at different rates. Some of us have a genius level IQ at ten and can have a Ph.d by the age of fifteen.


While others can be very intelligent but not know how to read.


And some are lesser mentally developed than the average high school student and can barely function in society.


B4's neural pathways were not as advanced as Data's, so there are two possibilities:


He is a prototype, and not meant to advance and learn,


Or he simply can not learn at the rates we and he can.


The key, to this, of course, is that B4's positronics and neural pathways are not as advanced as Dara's.


In short, Data made an assumption based on a desire to find beings that are like him.


Which brought him one step closer to the humanity he was seeking.

 

[Taelon]

I think it's more an issue of attitude rather than ability? Data strives, the others don't.

 

[SPCTRE]

What's with the formatting, OP? Are you writing a poem?

 

[Starborn Dragon]

I just try to keep things simple to make it more readable.

 

[Kor]

I think it is possible for someone of low intelligence to realize that everybody around them is smarter than they are, and wish they could also be that way.

But B4 seemed perfectly happy with being a moron forever.

Kor

 

[Doug Otte]

I don't think aspiration requires a certain level of intelligence. Data was talking about aspiration (in the context of deepening one's worldview and ethics, right?), not about intelligence.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I think it is possible for someone of low intelligence to realize that everybody around them is smarter than they are, and wish they could also be that way.

Or to be something more than they are; Data's observation wasn't about intellect but about one's desire to improve oneself, a desire that he surmised was absent in both B4 and Shinzon. What I suspect Data may have overlooked was that B4's limited cognitive abilities may have prevented him from having the necessary self-awareness to harbor such aspirations in the first place, whereas Shinzon appeared not to care about improving himself in spite having the ability to do so.

--Sran

 

[RoJoHen]

Or to be something more than they are; Data's observation wasn't about intellect but about one's desire to improve oneself, a desire that he surmised was absent in both B4 and Shinzon.

Which is where the analogy falls apart, and why I really can't stand that scene.

Maybe present-day adult Shinzon lacks the desire to better himself, but if he had been born on Earth and raised in France just like Picard, would that still be true? No. The boy was raised in a frickin' slave camp!

B4 doesn't aspire to better himself because he's too stupid. He's a robot who doesn't have enough memory.

Shinzon is a human being who grew up in horrible conditions. If he had been raised in a safe, loving, nurturing environment like Picard had, of course he would be a better man. He wasn't born inherently evil.

 

[Taelon]

Picard was raised in a "loving, nurturing environment"?

 

[Kor]

^ Yes, that's why he speaks with an English accent and drinks English tea.

Kor

 

[Taelon]

The Picard family seem as loving and nurturing as the Dursleys.

 

[Starborn Dragon]

Or to be something more than they are; Data's observation wasn't about intellect but about one's desire to improve oneself, a desire that he surmised was absent in both B4 and Shinzon.

Which is where the analogy falls apart, and why I really can't stand that scene.

Maybe present-day adult Shinzon lacks the desire to better himself, but if he had been born on Earth and raised in France just like Picard, would that still be true? No. The boy was raised in a frickin' slave camp!

B4 doesn't aspire to better himself because he's too stupid. He's a robot who doesn't have enough memory.

Shinzon is a human being who grew up in horrible conditions. If he had been raised in a safe, loving, nurturing environment like Picard had, of course he would be a better man. He wasn't born inherently evil.

Actually, he still could've made the choice to be a better person than he was.

Many people grew up in horrible conditions, very abusive family, bad environment, oppressive government, and did overcome those things to become a better person.

But then again, to coin a Godwin, Hitler was also one of those people in a bad family (his father often beat him senseless) and oppressive environment. Look how he lashed out at the world when he got the chance.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

But then again, to coin a Godwin, Hitler was also one of those people in a bad family (his father often beat him senseless) and oppressive environment. Look how he lashed out at the world when he got the chance.

It's only a Godwin if you're comparing a fellow poster to Hitler, no worries good comparison!

 

[Starborn Dragon]

But then again, to coin a Godwin, Hitler was also one of those people in a bad family (his father often beat him senseless) and oppressive environment. Look how he lashed out at the world when he got the chance.

It's only a Godwin if you're comparing a fellow poster to Hitler, no worries good comparison!

Thanks.

 

[trekshark]

Data's real mistake was not using a shuttle craft's independent transporter

assuming B4 actually was built by Soong he probably simply didn't have the programming to want to change So in a way Data was right that B4 didn't aspire to be better but if it wasn't programmed into him it's not his fault