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"Datalore" question

Also, Data's super strength and intelligence were without equal. Those factors alone made it sensible to treat *another* of his race with extreme caution. Klingons are also smart and strong, but not to such an extent as Data.

To put it another way, it's possible to be the equal of a Klingon in strength and smarts, but no one could possibly match Data that way. A Klingon can be beaten, but Data cannot (not without cheating, anyway).
 
Heck, as was made abundantly clear, Data's capable of taking over the ship in about ten minutes, and that was because of a switch he didn't even know was inside him.

If the crew isn't going to worry about Data's conscious abilities, they would at least be wise to worry about his unconscious ones.
 
^ Haha, maybe they were stupid, blind, and deaf this episode.

All but Wesley. Which is fucking ridiculous.

It's all worth it for, "Shut up, Wesley!"

*clap, clap*

Also, Data's super strength and intelligence were without equal. Those factors alone made it sensible to treat *another* of his race with extreme caution. Klingons are also smart and strong, but not to such an extent as Data.

To put it another way, it's possible to be the equal of a Klingon in strength and smarts, but no one could possibly match Data that way. A Klingon can be beaten, but Data cannot (not without cheating, anyway).

Heck, as was made abundantly clear, Data's capable of taking over the ship in about ten minutes, and that was because of a switch he didn't even know was inside him.

If the crew isn't going to worry about Data's conscious abilities, they would at least be wise to worry about his unconscious ones.

I suppose those are good points. Plus, a possible in-canon reason would be that they haven't learned to trust him with that power yet. Some of them just arrived on the ship [such as the beginning of the series. :techman:]
 
What they needed was a Detect Contractions spell. :)

Except of course Data does use contractions in that very episode. You'd think someone would've caught it, but nooooo. Stupid first season.

And you know, given the number of times Data ended up endangering the ship because Dr. Soong or Lore flipped a switch in his brain or he decided to join the Robot Solidarity Movement, I don't think the crew was wrong to be suspicious.
 
And you know, given the number of times Data ended up endangering the ship because Dr. Soong or Lore flipped a switch in his brain or he decided to join the Robot Solidarity Movement, I don't think the crew was wrong to be suspicious.

But those were after Datalore..... or are we all just throwing the passage of time out the window? Star Trek messed up the time continuum too much, I assume, to care anymore.
 
I don't really understand the original objection. The crew "didn't trust Data"? They did - they did not throw him in the brig or hold him at gunpoint. They weren't suspicious of him, despite Tasha Yar asking a few sensible questions. Riker just sent Wesley to keep Data company because he was behaving slightly oddly and might have been in need of some benign companionship. Riker wouldn't have sent in a kid who didn't have backup and who didn't even report back immediately (nor apparently was expected to) if he truly suspected Data of evildoing.

And the resident android (that is, the weekly willain imitating him) only truly starts acting in a suspicious manner when the Crystalline Entity reappears anyway. It's at that point that Picard suddenly refuses to believe Data is in fact Lore in disguise, against all evidence - but that's hardly evidence that Picard would be stupid. Rather, despite claiming he doesn't believe Wesley's accusations, he immediately acts upon them, putting Lore-playing-Data under covert surveillance by an armed guard. Apparently, he was merely playing along, trying to silence the stupid kid who was blurting out the truth and thus almost alerting Lore.

No, the crew isn't stupid or failing to react at that point yet. The point where stupidity enters the picture comes a bit later... When Lore puts his shield-dropping plan in motion, it's not Yar's armed guard that intervenes, but Data and Wesley and Beverly Crusher. Why? Where is the guard? How did Lore give them the slip?

Of course, it would not be unrealistic for him to be able to do so, after beating up Worf: he must have dozens of android tricks in his sleeve, and indeed could much more realistically be expected to pull this off than Dona Ragar in the later "The Hunted". Note that he does end up in a cargo bay that prominently lacks the tree he claimed he would be transporting, so he probably isn't where our heroes expect him to be.

No, Lore shedding his armed overcoat is not a plot hole as such. The idea that Data and the Crushers would find Lore faster than the security force does is... And the idea that they would confront Lore when finding him is example of utter character stupidity. Or more exactly, Wesley is being stupid when he offers himself as hostage (but he's a stupid kid and should be excused), and his mother is stupid in allowing this to happen (and she doesn't have an excuse).

The rest of the episode's plot problems relate to the inability of the Tripoli to unravel the mystery those decades ago, or of Starfleet to have done so between that time and the present. But those problems are easily shrugged off, argued to represent realism where the hero organization cannot really spend the time and effort on such things in the vast universe it is expected to explore and patrol.

(Also, in retrospect, Lore should not have had control of the ship's shields when he started toying with the cargo transporter. He would already be known to be on a mission of evil - and indeed nothing in the episode indicates he would have been able to drop the shields. If he managed to do that, the Crystalline Entity ought to have attacked at once, yet it didn't. It's only later on, in "Brothers", that we learn Lore somehow survived his beam-out, which might suggest that the shields really were dropped. Unless, of course, he was beamed into a point within the shield envelope and not through the shields, but in that case our heroes were remiss in their duties in not spotting the surviving Lore.)

BTW, does anybody else think that Lore was delusional when thinking he could converse with the Crystalline Entity? There's no indication in this episode that the Entity understood what Lore was saying. And indeed "Brothers" raises the possibility that Lore managed to drop the shields yet the Entity failed to follow Lore's plan, suggesting there was no true communication between the two.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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I would have replicated a new set of arms and legs for Lore when he was being re-assembled that were made out of easily breakable plastic and weak ass servo motors.

Why build your walking brain robots to be so strong they should be limited by design to human strength....
 
My problem with "Datalore" was that it was, at its core, a soap opera plot about the "evil twin" and plays out as such, even to twin's dastardly plot to replace his "brother".

Whereas "The Enemy Within" took the concept of the evil twin, turned it on its heels and used it to explore the psychology of Jim Kirk and what made him a leader. "Datalore," however, did none of that for Data.

I also felt it dispatched the mystery of Data quickly by showing his origins so soon in the series.

I prefer the original concept that Data was a synthetic being, much like the Cylons of nuBSG, and was built by some unknown race of aliens.

Unfortunately, Data became more and more "mechanical" as the series wore on. He went from being "if you prick me do I not leak" to a Tinker toy that had various USB ports.
 
What bothered me the most about it the utterances of "Shut up, Wesley" even though I wouldn't ordinarily blame anyone who said it. However short-tempered Picard was in Season 1, he still had more tact and manners than certain cable news hosts. And of course there was the claim that Data does not use contractions even though that's not always true.

I just think it was a little odd for the crew. Did they question Worf's loyalties when he finally started interacting with other Klingons? I don't think so. I just thought that their suspicion was a little premature.
And especially this. Worf didn't turn them in when those Klingons revealed themselves renegades against the alliance and who murdered loyal soldiers of the empire. It was only after Captain K'Nera contacted them that Yar placed Korris and Konmel under arrest.
 
What bothered me the most about it the utterances of "Shut up, Wesley" even though I wouldn't ordinarily blame anyone who said it. However short-tempered Picard was in Season 1, he still had more tact and manners than certain cable news hosts.

But it wasn't a matter of manners - it was a matter of life and death. Wes was trying to say that Lore was impersonating Data. Now, if Picard showed he believed Wes, all would be lost, because Lore was listening.

...That is, Lore had just left the bridge. But the tension of the moment remained. Picard didn't want Lore to know they knew, and Wesley was too stupid to realize that. To boot, he was too stupid to realize that Picard had actually showed him respect. In the very same phrase with "Shut up, Wesley", Picard orders his officers to act upon Wesley's suspicions. Wes simply does not listen, though, and mistakenly thinks Picard is still unreceptive to his ideas.

And of course there was the claim that Data does not use contractions even though that's not always true.

Except that there wasn't. Nowhere in this episode or others is it claimed that Data does not (much less cannot) use contractions. Instead, it is stated that Data tends to speak formally on most occasions. And even this statement is in fact made by Lore, in order to obfuscate and confuse!

Timo Saloniemi
 
I just think it was a little odd for the crew. Did they question Worf's loyalties when he finally started interacting with other Klingons? I don't think so. I just thought that their suspicion was a little premature.

Remember, most of this crew just met...as Riker is unsure of Data in "Encounter at Farpoint", they are still somewhat uncomfortable with the limitations/abilities of Data.

RAMA
 
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