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Oh, ok. Yeah, I realized right after I posted that I probably should have waited to see what happened later in the book. Oh, and I didn't read the spoiler, so if anyone wants to discuss it I would ask that you please code it.
Immortal Coil's been out for years, we're technically past the requirement for keeping quiet about spoilers right?
Anyway, I know that it was a throwaway reference in that episode where they find Data's mother, but have the three prototypes ever been addressed anywhere else?
And before anyone jumps up and down shouting "B4!" the book specifically calls them nameless!
^ Yes, generally. However when it is obvious that the OP or the thread in general is about actively reading a book it is considered at least polite to not go spoiling things all willy nilly and to use spoiler tags.
have the three prototypes ever been addressed anywhere else? And before anyone jumps up and down shouting "B4!" the book specifically calls them nameless!
Originally, the "Nemesis" script was calling its Data prototype the "B-9", as in "benign", but just before filming, it became the "B-4", as in "before", with the same joke about Soong's sense of humour.
By coincidence - or planning? - the change to B-4 fits well with "Inheritance" and "Immortal Coil", with the three previous prototypes known to Juliana Tainer assumed to be coded B-1, B-2 and B-3. If the book specifically calls them nameless, it still works. Even the NEM prototype was called, at times, the B-4. It's a production number rather than a name. For some reason, Juliana was neither aware of this prototype's existence, nor its disappearance. Some fans reckon that B-4 predates the three unnamed prototypes, but we have no evidence either way, or even if they looked like Data.
I once emailed Jeff Lang, the author of "Immortal Coil", just after NEM, suggesting it might inspire a sequel/prequel to both NEM and "Immortal Coil", but he said once Marco Palmieri had left Pocket Books, he didn't feel he had an "in" for pitching, and was happy to write other things instead.
so lore, date, b4, 3 prototypes, julietta... i get 7, any more androids out there?
have the three prototypes ever been addressed anywhere else? And before anyone jumps up and down shouting "B4!" the book specifically calls them nameless!
Originally, the "Nemesis" script was calling its Data prototype the "B-9", as in "benign", but just before filming, it became the "B-4", as in "before", with the same joke about Soong's sense of humour.
By coincidence - or planning? - the change to B-4 fits well with "Inheritance" and "Immortal Coil", with the three previous prototypes known to Juliana Tainer assumed to be coded B-1, B-2 and B-3. If the book specifically calls them nameless, it still works. Even the NEM prototype was called, at times, the B-4. It's a production number rather than a name. For some reason, Juliana was neither aware of this prototype's existence, nor its disappearance.
I once emailed Jeff Lang, the author of "Immortal Coil", just after NEM, suggesting it might inspire a sequel/prequel to both NEM and "Immortal Coil", but he said once Marco Palmieri had left Pocket Books, he didn't feel he had an "in" for pitching, and was happy to write other things instead.
As I've said before, I can't quite buy the idea that B-4 was built after those other three prototypes. His consciousness is simply too crude to be the model immediately preceding Lore. That's too great a leap in sophistication for two consecutive prototypes. It seems more likely to me that he was the first such prototype. Perhaps B-1 to B-3 were earlier positronic brains in simpler robotic bodies or no bodies at all, and B-4 was the first one in an android body. Or perhaps it wasn't a number but just the joke, "before," as the script suggested.
The Playmates action figure of Dr Soong came with a little prototype robot accessory, but not canonical, unless he was in the set dressing of "Brothers" somewhere.
Christopher said: "As I've said before, I can't quite buy the idea that B-4 was built after those other three prototypes."
Or Dr Soong was numbering backwards, like a countdown to the perfect one?
IIRC, the novel makes no mention of what the other three prototypes look like. Yes, they may just be brains, or crude armatures. Have you ever seen the model of Leonardo da Vinci's crude wooden android?
As I've said before, I can't quite buy the idea that B-4 was built after those other three prototypes. His consciousness is simply too crude to be the model immediately preceding Lore. That's too great a leap in sophistication for two consecutive prototypes. It seems more likely to me that he was the first such prototype. Perhaps B-1 to B-3 were earlier positronic brains in simpler robotic bodies or no bodies at all, and B-4 was the first one in an android body. Or perhaps it wasn't a number but just the joke, "before," as the script suggested.
To be fair we don't know it went B4 - Lore directly. And B1-3 implies an A model as well. so it's possible the others were more advanced and B4 was the Vista model?
Christopher said: "As I've said before, I can't quite buy the idea that B-4 was built after those other three prototypes."
Or Dr Soong was numbering backwards, like a countdown to the perfect one?
IIRC, the novel makes no mention of what the other three prototypes look like. Yes, they may just be brains, or crude armatures. Have you ever seen the model of Leonardo da Vinci's crude wooden android?
My central point is not about the bodies but about the minds. We know of three other prototypes prior to Lore; thus if B-4 were the fourth, that would make him the one right before Lore, and I can't accept that because he's far too primitive.
And I don't buy the "Vista" explanation. Whatever its faults, Vista was a sophisticated piece of software. B-4 was a Commodore 64. He was like something that was mainly a prototype for the body with only the most basic mental functions included. He strikes me very much as a first draft, not a fourth draft.
Christopher said: "As I've said before, I can't quite buy the idea that B-4 was built after those other three prototypes."
Or Dr Soong was numbering backwards, like a countdown to the perfect one?
IIRC, the novel makes no mention of what the other three prototypes look like. Yes, they may just be brains, or crude armatures. Have you ever seen the model of Leonardo da Vinci's crude wooden android?
My central point is not about the bodies but about the minds. We know of three other prototypes prior to Lore; thus if B-4 were the fourth, that would make him the one right before Lore, and I can't accept that because he's far too primitive.
And I don't buy the "Vista" explanation. Whatever its faults, Vista was a sophisticated piece of software. B-4 was a Commodore 64. He was like something that was mainly a prototype for the body with only the most basic mental functions included. He strikes me very much as a first draft, not a fourth draft.
Christopher said: "As I've said before, I can't quite buy the idea that B-4 was built after those other three prototypes."
Or Dr Soong was numbering backwards, like a countdown to the perfect one?
IIRC, the novel makes no mention of what the other three prototypes look like. Yes, they may just be brains, or crude armatures. Have you ever seen the model of Leonardo da Vinci's crude wooden android?
My central point is not about the bodies but about the minds. We know of three other prototypes prior to Lore; thus if B-4 were the fourth, that would make him the one right before Lore, and I can't accept that because he's far too primitive.
And I don't buy the "Vista" explanation. Whatever its faults, Vista was a sophisticated piece of software. B-4 was a Commodore 64. He was like something that was mainly a prototype for the body with only the most basic mental functions included. He strikes me very much as a first draft, not a fourth draft.
My central point is not about the bodies but about the minds. We know of three other prototypes prior to Lore; thus if B-4 were the fourth, that would make him the one right before Lore, and I can't accept that because he's far too primitive.
And I don't buy the "Vista" explanation. Whatever its faults, Vista was a sophisticated piece of software. B-4 was a Commodore 64. He was like something that was mainly a prototype for the body with only the most basic mental functions included. He strikes me very much as a first draft, not a fourth draft.
