Data - Did he Always have Emotions?

[Praxius]

I imagine this was discussed a number of times in the past, but do not see any recent threads/topics specifically talking about this.

Now, for as long as I have been watching ST:TNG I always believed and accepted that Data never had emotions. Everything was a calculation, an equation processed that determined his responses and reasoning..... he eventually got an emotion chip that seemed to give him real emotions, thus it should be safe to say he never had them.

But over the years and especially just recently when my wife and I have been going through the series from start to finish, I've started to notice more and more hints/clues pointing towards him either always having emotions, or understanding enough about emotions to simulate emotional responses. (Even though he claimed he didn't, either on purpose or out of ignorance)

In the past, I even told people who suggested he had emotions that I felt they were incorrect and looking too far into things.... but now, I am not so sure.

Afterall, what are emotions?

Most definitions seem to revolve around emotions being an unconscious reaction based on feelings to an event or situation that is otherwise not manually conceived of in the mind..... but they're stuck still using "Feelings" to explain "Emotions" which are the same thing.

One first has to look at the reasons why we feel the way we do towards something.

I feel a certain way towards someone or something based on past experiences, lessons and knowledge I have gathered over a period of time. I've grown to learn when something benefits my life or others lives, I've grown to learn when something is not beneficial, I've grown to become accustomed to certain things in my life, and I've grown to learn what may or may not damage/harm myself or others, either mentally or physically..... my emotions are derived from my past experiences in life which are directly connected to the needs of my life.

When you watch something on your evening news report that makes you angry, someone may ask you why this report makes you angry..... you then in turn explain the reasons that justify your reasoning or emotional response to that report. Maybe it's against the law, maybe someone was injured when there was no need, maybe the report explains a situation that is generally unfair to one group or another.....

Now look at examples from Data. When he makes a decision or takes an action, sometimes Picard or someone else would ask him why he did what he did, because what he did may be seen as an emotional response, but Data in turn, believing he doesn't have emotions or simply doesn't understand them, replies with a generic reasoning response for why he did something and he chalks it up to being either the logical thing to do, or simply the right thing to do, based on whatever reasons he just explained.

But besides the differences of facial expressions or lack there of, what's the difference between how we come to our own conclusions and reactions to a situation and how he came to his own conclusions and reactions?

Sure our emotions may come to us instantly and without really thinking of why (they just do) but if one really thought about it, they will see very clearly their own logical reasoning at work in the background of the mind that eventually created the emotional response they experienced.

As a few examples of Data's possible emotional existence, how he reacted to Tasha's death, how he's still at times preoccupied because of it, how he quickly allowed her sister, Ishara, to be accepted into his life and allowed her to manipulate his previous connection/feelings towards Tasha...... How he almost killed Fajo and didn't quite come forward with explaining what happened to Riker...... his desire to protect his creation, Lal from Starfleet.

Now yes, most of those and more examples can be explained away as deductive reasoning or plain simple logical conclusions computed in a manner that seems to justify an action or position..... but most of the things we get emotional over are usually based around our own understanding of a situation based on what we know or believe is right or wrong and to us, we believe our emotional responses are justified because to us, it makes sense to do so.

You look at a new born baby and she/he makes a funny face or sound..... you laugh or smile, because to you, new born babies are cute, innocent, we have it hardwired into our genetics to care and desire protection of new borns.... heck there could be all kinds of reasons/justifications.... but even though you may not think of those reasons/justifications, that doesn't mean they don't exist or are not at play when you react emotionally.

Also, have you ever been in a gathering of people you never wanted to be in? You may have noticed that you are not comfortable in the environment, the people you are surrounded by, their humor, but while you may hate the situation, you will simulate smiles and cheer, you will simulate small talk and act like you're actually interested in being there..... why?

In most cases, it makes sense to put up with this for a short period of time and keep the peace rather then ruin everybody else's time... you weighed the pros and cons and felt sacrificing your own comfort was better then expanding that discomfort to everybody, which could logically expand on your already existing discomfort and thus put you in an even worse situation then you presently are in.

Now I'm not going to claim Data had emotions exactly like you and I do, but I'm now in the position to claim that he had some level of emotions, even if very limited. The emotion chip only allowed him to apply physical responses to the logic at play in the back of his mind in such a way that he could now perhaps understand the portion of emotions he wasn't exactly grasping.

What are your thoughts?

Did Data always have some level of emotions, even remote.... or was it all just plain & basic computer calculations and reasoning with nothing more beyond that?

If it's all just computer calculated reasoning.... then again, what's the difference between that and how we think?

As I see it, our emotions are based on a very complex and very detailed web of logic and reasoning on top of more logic and reasoning, which is on top of more and more logic and reasoning.....

If a computer or small child asked you why you did something and you explained why, the computer or child would ask why again in regards to another aspect of your explanation.... you explain, they ask why.....

Why?

Why?

Why?

It's redundant and can get on your nerves after a while.... but no matter how far down the "Why" road you go, you'll come across a reason/further explanation, that falls into another and then another..... because of this very complex web of reasoning and logic we built our lives around over the years, we grew to develop our understanding of this complex web through using emotions to over simplify our reasoning.

IMO, Data does the exact same thing, but approaches it in just a slightly different manner and expresses himself accordingly to this different approach.

 

[Marten]

I always hoped he did, but I'm not sure.

There are instances where I think he does, like in Offspring, but how a android brain works is beyond me.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

I think he had some underlying knowledge of the events that shape emotions - occasions that make people happy or sad, and through that, and understanding of why these emotions are tied to these events. As a result, I personally believe that without the chip, he would have begun to experience emotions on his own, albeit over a greater amount of time. The thing about all intelligence, from natural to artificial is that it is growing and evolving over time. Although it caused a cascade failure in Lal, she developed emotions of her own. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that Data would have developed emotions of his own as well.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

A number of the writers on the show were disappointed with the assertion during the third season that Data had no emotions - that was news to them.

 

[Alrik]

I'm going with yes, although I don't believe Data knew that the base for emotions were in place. There can be no argument that he experienced a loss when Tasha died because he pretty much came right out and said it to Picard. There are many other time thoughout the run that hints at an emotional response.

As far as the emotion chip that Soong designed for Data, I have always felt that he made it as way to help Data achieve emotional awareness more quickly than he would by getting there on his own.

 

[DevilEyes]

As I said in one of the previous threads about Data's emotions, I'm sure he always had some form of emotions, he just couldn't recognize them as such as he didn't naturally feel the physiological reactions that accompany short-term emotions like anger, fear, joy, sorrow (for instance, he wouldn't have an adrenaline rush or burst into tears or laughter) and he can see that he doesn't react the same way as the people around him; having no point of comparison, he may conclude that he "doesn't have emotions". The emotion chip allows him to feel the short-term emotions much more strongly, with the equivalent of human physical/hormonal reactions. After all, how would we know that we really are angry, happy, afraid, rather than just having a rational reaction to the circumstances, if we had never had an adrenaline rush, a burst of laughter, spontaneous tears in our eyes, etc.?

 

[Praxius]

Agreed.... Another aspect that leans me towards him having emotions but just not connecting/understanding them, would be the episode "In Theory" where he was dating.

There were a lot of things he didn't understand or have any knowledge in, like to stop painting when your girlfriend arrives, etc..... but believe it or not, there's a lot of guys today who have problems picking up on many of the same signals he had problems with.

She also said she left one relation devoid of any emotion and jumped right back into another relationship with someone "Incapable" of emotions..... so if he was like her ex, and her ex was human but devoid of emotions in the relationship.... what's the difference?

Of course he responds to comments and possible insults like a Vulcan does and deal with situations like a Vulcan, but Vulcans also have emotions too, albeit suppressed.... they sometimes act on their emotions while masking it as some logical reasoning, but they can take insults and emotional situations better then a human.... so in my view, he's between a vulcan and a human when it comes to his emotions.

But the big key in "In Theory" is right at the end of the episode when she walks out after he deletes the program he made especially for her and their relationship (another sign that he held some level of importance on the relationship)..... he sits there alone after accepting his own claim of having no emotions and being unable to provide care and love, when his cat Spot jumps into his lap and he instinctively greets Spot and begins to pet and give attention to Spot in which Spot responds with purring.

He seems to accept the divide between his emotions towards humans and that he gives to other animal species, somehow thinking the two are separate.

Even in the episode when he was kidnapped and held as a collector's item, he decided to give attention and feed the creature Fajo had captured as well, and try to communicate with it..... but as soon as anybody showed up, he stopped and acted like the machine people expect him to be.

Going back to "In Theory" I suspect that if they allowed the relationship to continue, both would have seen that what they claimed about Data's lack of emotions was simply untrue.

How many other guys out there when entering their first relationship (or perhaps second) tried to emulate or act like someone they were not because they felt them as they were, was inadequate? Although differently, Data did go through some of the same problems most in-experienced guys go through.... asking for advice, trying to be something they're not, trying too hard, not picking up on many of the signs women expect us to pick up on, etc.

If they both gave him a chance to go through some of the common mistakes to the point where he'd understand just being himself works the best..... I bet things would have been a lot different.... but it seems that since this relationship ended and ended kinda badly, he never really sought out another relationship later on and gave up, always thinking he would never be good enough for any woman or relationship.

But logically, if he can hold and understand friendships and have many friends, they why is a relationship such an impossible leap? It takes practice.

 

[Genesis Does]

Pretty confident that any time that Data appeared to be emoting unintentionally before his chip was installed was simply a writing issue, ala Spock in the Galileo Seven episode.

 

[Praxius]

Pretty confident that any time that Data appeared to be emoting unintentionally before his chip was installed was simply a writing issue, ala Spock in the Galileo Seven episode.

I would and still do apply that reasoning to the first two seasons of episodes, as it was pretty apparent they didn't get the character down very well..... but in later seasons where they basically slap the viewer in the face constantly about him not having emotions, the writers also in turn show some hints here and there that he possibly does have emotions.... hints that I didn't really pick up on until the past couple of weeks..... after 20 some years of watching.... like there are certain things the writers purposely made him do or say, while working the music and filming to emphasize more on this possibility that makes the viewer question what they're being told, compared to what they see.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Pretty confident that any time that Data appeared to be emoting unintentionally before his chip was installed was simply a writing issue, ala Spock in the Galileo Seven episode.

Spiner was very good at getting subtle emotion into very neutral dialogue. This was not a "writing issue" - producers could make any (late, revisionist) assertions about his lack of emotion that they wanted to, but neither writers nor actors are interested in trying to play that.

 

[SpyOne]

TNG was sprinkled with little hints that Data actually had some emotions, just not very strong, and that he simply believed he didn't have the same feelings as humans.
But no episode was as blatant about it as Data's Day, where we get Data's internal monologue as he drafts a letter to Commander Maddox about the events of the day.

DATA [OC]: It is fortunate that I am able to perform my duties without emotional distractions. If that were not the case, a sudden course correction toward the Neutral Zone would make me very nervous.

Data does feel apprehensive about this turn of events. Data hears that little voice in the back of his mind that says "this is a scary thing to do", but since he "knows" that he doesn't experience emotions, he assumes that what his human colleagues feel is something different.

DATA [OC]: Commander Maddox, I have often wished for the sense that humans call intuition or instinct. Since Vulcans are incapable of lying, I must accept the Ambassador's explanation as the truth, but I would still prefer a gut feeling to back up this conclusion.

Again, Data has a gut feeling here: the Ambassador is lying. Since he can find no rational basis for this feeling, he dismisses it, but he has it. After all, why wish for a gut feeling if there is no reason for doubt?

Remember these comments are made in the present tense: these are not his thoughts in retrospect as he writes the letter at the end of the day's events, these are his thoughts in real-time, as the events are happening.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Yeah, the oft-heard sentiment was that Data was the tin man from the Judy Garland "Oz" movie - he had a heart and didn't know it.

 

[Mojochi]

Did he have what we consider typical human emotions? Obviously not, but then again, neither do Vulcans. In fact, they suppress theirs, because they are much stronger. Is it reasonable to say that before his emotion chip, he exhibited behavior, & made statements that are consistent with some level of emotional awareness? Absolutely, & I believe that it was a purposeful choice that the writers & actor accepted, perhaps not initially, but rather early on

This always brings me back to how he rejected Bruce Maddox's experiment. His rationale was that the "essence" of his life would be lost in the data transfer. This suggests that his sentience is something more than just mere memory storage & algorithmic responses. His existence is an inexplicable condition, which serves to make him more than just the sum of his programming, & is the only known viable vehicle for him to be who he is

He uses the phrase "The flavor of the moment" But I think he is really describing the spirit of it, the spirit of life, the individual interpretation of it, based on who you are. As far as I'm concerned, there is no sentience without some kind of emotional awareness. That quality is subtly displayed many times throughout Data's story arc, on that show, whether the character realizes it or not

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Data has emotions. The script may sometimes think he doesn't, but it also constantly implies that he does. How can his desire to be more "human" (which I always thought was a bit weird in a galaxy full of intelligent races, but anyway...) be explained if he doesn't? Isn't desire an emotion?

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

'Human' is kind of a catch-all term for humanoid, I figure. It's why there's still references to being 'humane' and 'human rights' and such. At least, that's what humanity wants to think, but every now and then, there are some who notice the sound of biogtry in the words.

 

[Ward Fowler]

A number of the writers on the show were disappointed with the assertion during the third season that Data had no emotions - that was news to them.

And it showed. Spiner never played Data as completely emotionless, and the writers certainly didn't always portray him that way.

 

[CobraCommander]

I never understood why Lore wanted that Emotion chip so bad. Lore, on his own, can be classified as a classic psychopath. He felt emotions but they just drove him into a homicidal rage due to his rejection by the colonists. With the chip installed, he became a Jim Jones/ doomsday prophet. He was still a psychopath who placed only his own interests before himself. When he captured Data, he just fed him pure hate. He himself was oblivious to the good emotions from the chip. He just didn't get what the chip had to offer.
Now Data may have felt some basic attachments. He felt for the loss of Lt. Tasha Yar and was loyal to Starfleet. That loyalty wasn't programmed, it was earned. Another argument that Data could feel emotions can come from the time Q let Data experience emotion. By letting feel joy and laughter, Data had a reference as to what good emotion is. Cobra

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

I thought it was obvious why Lore wanted the chip - because Soong wanted to give it to Data. Lore never grew out of that attention seeking toddler phase. Data was Soong's 'new baby' and Lore was no longer the favorite. Soong hadn't even given a thought to if Lore was still alive, he'd summoned Data, and expected only Data, so that he could give Data a new toy. So Lore wants to steal Data's new toy, not because it was something he needed and could use but because Daddy wanted the new baby to have it.

 

[Praxius]

I thought it was obvious why Lore wanted the chip - because Soong wanted to give it to Data. Lore never grew out of that attention seeking toddler phase. Data was Soong's 'new baby' and Lore was no longer the favorite. Soong hadn't even given a thought to if Lore was still alive, he'd summoned Data, and expected only Data, so that he could give Data a new toy. So Lore wants to steal Data's new toy, not because it was something he needed and could use but because Daddy wanted the new baby to have it.

To add to that, Lore was bitter about being forgotten and left in pieces on a distant planet and that his "Father" never bothered to try and fix him or work on him.... he just abandoned him to put all his efforts into Data.

I could see why he'd be bitter about that. Lore wanted some way to "hurt" Data, which was to take away his chance to fully realize emotions beyond what he currently knew.... and at the same time, wanted to confront Soong about what he did, eventually leading to him killing Soong so that there'd be no chance of him making another chip for Data.... thus killing two birds with one stone, so to speak.

 

[Mojochi]

Yes, Lore felt owed something from Soong, & since the chip is all there was, he took it. Plus, apart from the more brilliant ways he would likely find to benefit from the chip, the best use to him, would be that it was designed for Data, & in being so, it was a perfect tool to manipulate him

The added emotional intensity must have had an effect. He became hellbent on galactic domination, & knew the only real threat to that goal was Data. If it hadn't been for Picard & Geordi triggering his ethical programming, Data might never have gotten free, & Lore having Data under his control, they probably could have conquered the galaxy, especially by controlling the Borg. What a crazy thought