• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Dark moments in TOS...

I thought “Requiem for Methuselah” a bit dark, in that it didn’t show human nature at its best. The pressure put on Reyna ‘killed’ her (yes, I know she was an android). Kirk and Flint could only think about what they wanted.

I always wondered what Kirk thought he would do with her if he won her affections. Take her back to live on the Enterprise??
 
If the actor's name is spelled right and it's a supporting character, that's a minor thing. I never even noticed it.

I did. I found it bizarre and still do. It's out of step with the usual quality standards of Star Trek.

AND my Usual Suspects BFI book

What is this?

:shrug: Still absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so I'm just going to say, "No, whatever you're referencing has nothing to do with my story" and move on with my life. Have a great day!

They're talking about The Exorcist. But I didn't really see the connection to your points either.

I thought “Requiem for Methuselah” a bit dark, in that it didn’t show human nature at its best. The pressure put on Reyna ‘killed’ her (yes, I know she was an android). Kirk and Flint could only think about what they wanted.

I always wondered what Kirk thought he would do with her if he won her affections. Take her back to live on the Enterprise??

Good call. I really love that episode for many reasons, but Kirk's intentions are a little murky, particularly since his crew is apparently imminently dying, but then presumably so is he (never made explicitly clear). But I see it this way - ever met someone with whom you just had instantaneous romantic chemistry that seemed to be mutual and caused you to think and act in unusual ways? I think that what's happening. Reena/Rayna as an (ostensibly) immortal android adds a pretty cool science fiction gloss.
 
Last edited:
They're talking about The Exorcist. But I didn't really see the connection to your points either.
Wow, a straight answer to my question! See, Foxhot, was that so hard?

But whatever, that was more than a week ago, so I'd long since stopped thinking about whatever the heck they meant.
 
It analyzes the 1995 USUAL SUSPECTS film by Bryan Singer and Christopher McQuarrie.

I was sort of hoping that would be it - as a big dialogue fan, that's one of my favorite movies ever. Looks like Amazon still has the book (also in case you need another one - it's not too horribly pricey). Thanks.
 
One reason why it might be hard to find Nichelle Nichols' autobiography in public libraries is because (at least locally) someone input her name as "Michelle" Nichols.

I pointed out the mistake to the local librarians and was met with a shrug. They couldn't care less if there's a mistake in the card catalogue.

That's disappointing and unusual. I see the Library of Congress got Nichols' name right, and most other libraries will copy the cataloging that the Library of Congress did.

If the people Timewalker spoke to were actually clerical staff, checking books out and checking them back in, shelving, etc., it is not their job to correct their catalog. They would need to find it in trustworthy reference sources to establish that it was the actress Nichelle Nichols and not any of the several people named Michelle Nichols who have written books.
 
I remember this from discussing what Discovery could had been, but doesn't Bones or Kirk say that they've finally reformed the penal system from something awful to more humane?

Edit: It's from Dagger of the Mind.

'KIRK: I would like to have met Doctor Adams. Have you ever been to a penal colony since they started following his theories?
MCCOY: A cage is a cage, Jim.
KIRK: You're behind the times, Bones. They're more like resort colonies now.

As Earth was already experimenting with rehabilitative prisons around the 1960s-1970s time-frame its a bit jarring that there was enough of a regression that in the 2260s under the erstwhile more advanced federation it was seen as revolutionary. While there is a debate now on punitive vs rehabilitative corrections now, of course, it felt like something United Earth would bring to the Federation table early on than so maturely.
 
Last edited:
You're neither moving on nor up. Now you want even less posts from me in order to link arms with three more petty sycophants to crowd out the hallway? Do you enjoy MEAN GIRLS that much? It's a fun film, but why get overly into imaginary small-mindedness when you might attempt jibing with your signature instead of churning anti-''have a great day'' comments because you happened not to get a EXORCIST reference the second time around? It's not proof of ignorance on your part nor malice on mine. Gosh, indeed.

That tears it.

Your constant non-sequiter posting is bad enough, but this kind of response is straight-up trolling.

Warned as such.
 
I just watched THE IMMUNITY SYNDROME on TOS-R at MeTV.

The non-remastered closing credits...not only had smiling Spock, but a bald Auton like android I don't remember from the series...eyes rolled back.
 
I just watched THE IMMUNITY SYNDROME on TOS-R at MeTV.

The non-remastered closing credits...not only had smiling Spock, but a bald Auton like android I don't remember from the series...eyes rolled back.

The smiling Spock and the bald android are both from "Return to Tomorrow." The android was played by William Blackburn. The frame of Blackburn in the end credits is not from an actual scene from the episode.
 
I find all the silly costumes, sets and props--when compared to TNG/Movie Era and beyond--always gave TOS a somehow goofier, more lighthearted feel. Even when the characters were delving into some pretty deep stuff, by today's standard it can still be seen as a product of its time in both plot points, character development, and set design. ;)

The two darkest TOS eps for me are pretty similar: Dagger of the Mind and Whom Gods Destroy. Both coming from a very different era IRL as far as psychiatric/neuropsychiatric/neurodivergent/etc research has now proven, but in both cases a deeply betrayed trust, fatal consequences, and psychiatric illness is treated as an incurable scourge that can't be managed like other diseases. Seeing the "treatment machine" kill Adams and Garth's cold-blooded dispatch of Marta don't speak well to the efficacy of psychiatric therapies. The story of Gem in "The Empath" is one I am particularly troubled by, for the same reason ("she's nice, she might be nuts, let's kill her!!").

A darker thread that runs through some of my hands-down absolute fave TOS episodes are only mentionable in 2023--I wouldn't hold the writers or producers of the 1960s to these standards, though I do think it would be interesting to see how/if the character treatment would have developed if re-written today. Namely, I'm not the least surprised that Mudd's women tried to flirt their way out of marrying miners, or that Elaan was furious at being shipped off to Troyius to marry a blood enemy: today we'd call that Starfleet's tacit condonement of [human] trafficking. TNG and ENT did touch on some similar themes through their runs, YMMV.

Similarly, I don't know if this counts as dark per se, but in the same vein, I love everything about Joanne Linville's Romulan Commander in The Enterprise Incident with one glaring exception: you mean to tell me a trained, tested, experienced battlegroup commander in charge of a three-ship patrol in contested space...was just so bowled over by Spock's galacto-mojo that she tossed all common sense away for a pointy-eared kiss? Maybe it's not dark, but doubtful. Again, not trying to create a space-time rip in morality and hold writers from nearly 60 years ago accountable to today's expectations, as it was very progressive for its time. But I digress.

Finally: Arena. No reason. I just plain old don't like the Gorn, they give me the creeps. In everything I've seen of them in later series, they don't get any more loveable. Any kind of spooky, eerie, violent, Jurassic-Park-in-Space = dark to me.
 
I find all the silly costumes, sets and props--when compared to TNG/Movie Era and beyond--always gave TOS a somehow goofier, more lighthearted feel. Even when the characters were delving into some pretty deep stuff, by today's standard it can still be seen as a product of its time in both plot points, character development, and set design. ;)

The two darkest TOS eps for me are pretty similar: Dagger of the Mind and Whom Gods Destroy. Both coming from a very different era IRL as far as psychiatric/neuropsychiatric/neurodivergent/etc research has now proven, but in both cases a deeply betrayed trust, fatal consequences, and psychiatric illness is treated as an incurable scourge that can't be managed like other diseases. Seeing the "treatment machine" kill Adams and Garth's cold-blooded dispatch of Marta don't speak well to the efficacy of psychiatric therapies. The story of Gem in "The Empath" is one I am particularly troubled by, for the same reason ("she's nice, she might be nuts, let's kill her!!").

A darker thread that runs through some of my hands-down absolute fave TOS episodes are only mentionable in 2023--I wouldn't hold the writers or producers of the 1960s to these standards, though I do think it would be interesting to see how/if the character treatment would have developed if re-written today. Namely, I'm not the least surprised that Mudd's women tried to flirt their way out of marrying miners, or that Elaan was furious at being shipped off to Troyius to marry a blood enemy: today we'd call that Starfleet's tacit condonement of [human] trafficking. TNG and ENT did touch on some similar themes through their runs, YMMV.

Similarly, I don't know if this counts as dark per se, but in the same vein, I love everything about Joanne Linville's Romulan Commander in The Enterprise Incident with one glaring exception: you mean to tell me a trained, tested, experienced battlegroup commander in charge of a three-ship patrol in contested space...was just so bowled over by Spock's galacto-mojo that she tossed all common sense away for a pointy-eared kiss? Maybe it's not dark, but doubtful. Again, not trying to create a space-time rip in morality and hold writers from nearly 60 years ago accountable to today's expectations, as it was very progressive for its time. But I digress.

Finally: Arena. No reason. I just plain old don't like the Gorn, they give me the creeps. In everything I've seen of them in later series, they don't get any more loveable. Any kind of spooky, eerie, violent, Jurassic-Park-in-Space = dark to me.
I like TOS Gorn. I didn't like ENT Gorn, but part of that was the crappy special effects and the fact that they were nothing like TOS Gorns. If those alien creatures which have no resemblance whatsoever to TOS Gorns in SNW were called something else I would be okay with them, but my brain hasn't been able to reconcile them with the TOS Gorn.
 
I don't find the majority of the sets, props or costumes in the original series silly at all. But then again I watch everything in context of the times in which they were created. I don't compare them to present day.

And those designs hold up well enough to still be the pattern for today's Trek.
 
We never see grief of the multitude of deaths of system wide population "liquidations"...not until the skulls left behind by Kaylon in THE ORVILLE.

A statistic...I suppose.

One of the many sides of 60s censorship. In some ways, it's Hitchcockian - using imagination and psychology to do more to sell it, if not inadvertently due to budgetary constraints. "Orville" did that scene well.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top