• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Dark moments in TOS...

I have always felt TOS had some of the darkest endings of the franchise. As someone said earlier in this thread, I find it interesting that people complained about DS9 being so dark and dour but completely forget about Kirk's wife and unborn child stoned to death ("THE PARADISE SYNDROME"), Kirk condemning a planet to a civil war ("A PRIVATE LITTLE WAR"), Kirk beaming two of his crew into empty space ("AND THE CHILDREN SHALL LEAD"), Kirk losing half his family right in front of him ("OPERATION -- ANNIHILATE!"), McCoy killing the last of a sentient species ("THE MAN TRAP")... the list goes on.

While TOS did have these dark threads, it also had a great deal of humorous moments and a few entire episodes as comedies. This created a nice balance. DS9 very much modeled themselves after TOS because it also struck a wonderful balance between dark and light episodes and scenes.
 
It gets pushed away in your head when she turns out to be the murderer, but Kirk’s cold blooded use of a 19 year old girl to get to her father is pretty dark.
 
It gets pushed away in your head when she turns out to be the murderer, but Kirk’s cold blooded use of a 19 year old girl to get to her father is pretty dark.
It might seem odd today, but a young woman at 19 isn’t seen quite the same way today as it was decades or longer ago. Way back it wasn’t unusual for girls (and boys) going out into the working world at 13 or 14 or so. The idea of youth and even childhood today is very different than in the past. Back in the day she wasn’t seen as only a girl, but as a young woman.

One can argue people of more recent generations in general mature later than before as many of them remain home with their parents longer and thus are isolated longer from responsibilities and the realities of the world at large.
 
Last edited:
I always found this bit with Mara from "Day of the Dove" dark. She almost gets raped by Chekov, then her life is threatened by Kirk and her husband is willing to sacrifice her. Taken back to back so close together, it's understandable why Mara believed the Klingon propaganda.

The weird light hides as Chekov comes along. He hides, then kills the Klingon and takes Mara prisoner.)
CHEKOV: You don't die yet. You're not human, but you're very beautiful. Very beautiful.
(He rips her top, covers her mouth and I'll leave his intentions to your imaginations. Kirk comes along in the nick of time.)
KIRK: Chekov!
(He hauls him off Mara and slaps him twice, knocking him out.)
SPOCK: Jim, he's not responsible.

And later...

KIRK: Kang! Kang, this is Captain Kirk.

[Engineering]

KIRK [OC]: I know you can hear me, so don't cut me off. We have Mara, your wife. We talk truce now, or she dies. Reply.

[Bridge]

KIRK: She has five seconds to live. Reply.

[Engineering]

KANG: She is a victim of war, Captain.

[Bridge]

KANG [OC]: She understands.
KIRK: He called my bluff.
MARA: You're not going
KIRK: The Federation doesn't kill or mistreat its prisoners. You've been listening to propaganda, fables. How much time?
 
And yet the Thasian says that "but we have returned your people and your ship to you. Everything is as it was." I wonder how they pulled that off with the faceless woman.
"but we have returned your people and your ship and your missing faces to you. Everything is as it was, except what's-her-name is still dead. But at least the funeral can be open-casket now."

That is similar to my impression. The people who had various negative things happen to them as a direct result of Charlie's powers could be restored, but Charlie destroyed the a part of the SHIP in the case of the Antares, and the people only died as an indirect result of that part of the ship being gone, which destroyed the ship, and in turn the destrcution of the ship resulted in the loss of the people onboard.
Me too. The Thasians could only restore things that Charlie had affected directly. They could bring back the missing baffle plate (and maybe they did!) but it wouldn't do the crew of the Antares much good.
 
Like the old adage about fixing the dam after the reservoir has escaped... or was that barns and horses?
 
I always found this bit with Mara from "Day of the Dove" dark. She almost gets raped by Chekov, then her life is threatened by Kirk and her husband is willing to sacrifice her. Taken back to back so close together, it's understandable why Mara believed the Klingon propaganda.

The weird light hides as Chekov comes along. He hides, then kills the Klingon and takes Mara prisoner.)
CHEKOV: You don't die yet. You're not human, but you're very beautiful. Very beautiful.
(He rips her top, covers her mouth and I'll leave his intentions to your imaginations. Kirk comes along in the nick of time.)
KIRK: Chekov!
(He hauls him off Mara and slaps him twice, knocking him out.)
SPOCK: Jim, he's not responsible.

And later...

KIRK: Kang! Kang, this is Captain Kirk.

[Engineering]

KIRK [OC]: I know you can hear me, so don't cut me off. We have Mara, your wife. We talk truce now, or she dies. Reply.

[Bridge]

KIRK: She has five seconds to live. Reply.

[Engineering]

KANG: She is a victim of war, Captain.

[Bridge]

KANG [OC]: She understands.
KIRK: He called my bluff.
MARA: You're not going
KIRK: The Federation doesn't kill or mistreat its prisoners. You've been listening to propaganda, fables. How much time?


Worst of all, the energy fritter would just expend energy to heal up all the dead, just so they all can have another round.

KIRK: Nobody wins. Have any more of your men died? We can't be killed. There's an alien aboard. It wants us alive.
KANG: No doubt you will reassemble after I have hacked you to bits!
MARA: You fool!
(A contingent of Federation including McCoy and Spock take on the rest of the Klingons in the corridor. Spock cheats with his neck-pinch. Finally Kirk gets the point of his sword at Kang's throat.)
KIRK: Look! Look, Kang. For the rest of our lives. A thousand lifetimes! Senseless violence, fighting, while an alien has total control over us!
(Kirk throws away his sword.)
KIRK: All right. All right. In the heart. In the head. I won't stay dead. Next time I'll do the same to you. I'll kill you. And it goes on, the good old game of war, pawn against pawn! Stopping the bad guys. While somewhere, something sits back and laughs and starts it all over again.
MCCOY: Let's jump him.
What's really interesting is that the entity was not ever shown proving the claim that the injured individuals would be healed by the entity so they can do it all over again, and surely at some point the dumbest of the lot would eventually figure it out if the entity could? (I'm inferring that from the transcript as I've not seen this episode in a long period of time.)

(McCoy finishes bandaging Johnson.)
MCCOY: There. Those filthy butchers. There are rules, even in war. You don't keep hacking at a man after he's down. Hand me that numanol capsule.
(There's a man with a head wound in another bed, and a security guard is brought in too.)​

The Klingons didn't have the means to patch up their wounded, so I would wager that the energy fritter was using more covert means to heal the beings - many of which were not in the open. This might make some sense.

Also, given that 400 Enterprise crewmen were trapped, it'd make more sense that only the Klingons would be healed while the entity conserves its energy to let more Enterprise staff be killed off. Within reason; the longer it can keep the Klingons believing there are 400 pesky humans to be treated like roaches - well, there you go. I wonder what circumstances would be needed for the creature to have those trapped crewmen killed off, just so it could focus on the 38 from each side remaining.

And here's a neat idea: The Entity from this episode comes from the same planet as Jem ("The Empath", another dark tale) and somehow made it to this part of the quadrant. Maybe it caused a similar situation and vamoosed when it was found out by even the dumbest of the bunch?

Oh yeah, that's right - the episode ends with a guffaw as the thing exits the Enterprise, waiting for it all to start over again. Season 3 had a lot of open endings (not in bad ways) due to stalemates or other issues, with problems not fully resolved. It's the anti-Brady Bunch where every episode was neatly wrapped up by its end...
 
Paul Winfleld's death in TWOK was unsurprising, given his tendency to croak in assorted thrillers before and after TWOK.
"One day, I'm going to edit all of my death scenes into one big feature." - Paul Winfield in a Starlog interview I read ages ago. :lol:
Well, just because some fans don't like Freiberger and those episodes doesn't mean Shatner felt the same. He got along fine with Freddie and defended him numerous times in his books.
I remember an interview with Shatner where he said he thought Freiberger "did a yeoman's job." Perhaps Shatner liked Freiberger because he clearly regarded Shatner as the lead of the show and Spock as a secondary character.

On the topic of dark moments & horror in TOS, Vina's backstory in "The Cage" is pretty disturbing. Her body mangled in a spaceship crash, and put back together by aliens who'd never seen a human before and had no point of reference for what one was supposed to look like.
 
I remember an interview with Shatner where he said he thought Freiberger "did a yeoman's job." Perhaps Shatner liked Freiberger because he clearly regarded Shatner as the lead of the show and Spock as a secondary character.

Oh I'm sure that had a lot to do with it. Shatner was aware of "Spock's Brain" and the like, but - knowing what we know about the man - he was probably more focused on his role than most of the stories. And there were enough high concepts and opportunities for Shatner to stretch in that year.

Kirk loses his memory and joins a tribe
Kirk is made to feel as if he's losing command
Kirk goes nuts and wears pointed ears undercover
Kirk is humiliated and becomes a space horse
Kirk is impersonated by a madman
Kirk is a woman

I'm not saying all of those were his or the series' finest hours, but it gave him a lot to do out of his usual norm.

Dark moments abound in that third season, it's one of the reasons I really like it. The later time slot probably gave them more freedom to do darker material. Even the music was more grim. "Mark of Gideon" may not have been a stellar episode, but the shots of the citizen's faces pressed against the view port and floating on the screen scared the crap out of me as a kid. Same with the bodies on the Defiant.
 
I don't think it's fair or even responsible to assume that Shatner's reason for appreciating Fred Frieberger is because he allowed "more focus on Kirk as a character." First, Kirk was ALWAYS the primary focus of the show, with an occasional episode or sub-plot devoted to McCoy or Spock. Second, I don't think the structure of the third season in that regard is any different than the first two.
 
2. Didn't CHARLIE X do that in a sense?

Not the same thing. A number of people took control of the Enterprise, but Kirk losing his ability to command was mined in "The Enemy Within" and then not at all until "ATCSL."

And my point wasn't whether or not these were new concepts but concepts which gave Shatner a chance to do something more than usual.

I don't think it's fair or even responsible to assume that Shatner's reason for appreciating Fred Frieberger is because he allowed "more focus on Kirk as a character." First, Kirk was ALWAYS the primary focus of the show, with an occasional episode or sub-plot devoted to McCoy or Spock. Second, I don't think the structure of the third season in that regard is any different than the first two.

No but Feiberger forced Roddenberry to finally put the debate to bed after a year and half of competition. I'm sure it had something to do with Shatner's support of Freiberger, but naturally, not all. Other than an episode concept or two, I don't remember Shatner ever really badmouthing the third season. As I said, fans (other than I) didn't like it so much but that didn't mean Shatner agreed.
 
I don't think it's fair or even responsible to assume that Shatner's reason for appreciating Fred Frieberger is because he allowed "more focus on Kirk as a character."
I never meant to imply it was the only reason. But it is a possible reason.
No but Feiberger forced Roddenberry to finally put the debate to bed after a year and half of competition. I'm sure it had something to do with Shatner's support of Freiberger, but naturally, not all.
Yes. This is what I was referring to. Freiberger actually called a meeting and put Roddenberry on the spot to say whether Nimoy was an equal costar to Shatner in the series or not. (In front of Shatner and Nimoy, BTW.) Roddenberry hemmed and hawed and finally said, "It's Bill. Bill is the star of the series."

So yeah, things were a mite frosty between Nimoy and Roddenberry after that.
 
In the movies forum there's a discussion regarding the transporter accident scene in TMP and how some found it overly disturbing.

TOS had some pretty horrific moments only you just heard them referenced rather then got to see them happen. Example: the two security guards who were beamed out into open space while the ship was at warp in “And The Children Shall Lead.” Another was when Marta was blown up by Garth in “Whom Gods Destroy.”

TOS had long flirted with horror which tended to set it up as more adult oriented than most sci-fi of the day. So the transporter accident in TMP is perfectly in keeping with what TOS had done previously, but now it was a bit more graphic in keeping with how everything else was more detailed in appearance than what we saw on TOS.

Even TAS flirted with some edgy stuff particularly given its time slot.


So what are moments in TOS, and even TAS, where you thought they went surprisingly dark and perhaps even into the realm of horror?
"The Wolf In The Fold". A great whodunit with great tension and acting. I loved the atmosphere. I've seen this episode many times and it still draws me in.
 
"The Wolf In The Fold". A great whodunit with great tension and acting. I loved the atmosphere. I've seen this episode many times and it still draws me in.

The tension and handling of Redjak is indeed a strong point...

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

John Fielder is a terrific chharacter actor, who nails the role with aplomb. There's some good direction in this episode, regardless of issues...

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

^^another great scene, rendered easier if one rolls with the idea that the incomporeal being can manifest inside integrated circuits and the fact that

the clip sorta goes above and beyond the actual script in an amusing way, IMHO...

But the base premise, how Scotty all of a sudden hates all women because his female worker didn't put on a drive plate so the area exploded and threw him onto the wall and now hates all women - in terms of setting him up for the murders he did not commit - is ludicrous and stretches credibility to just about the breaking point. Also, the idea that Redjak (the "incorporeal fritter of the week" trope) had some ability to manipulate beyond direct control of a person's body also doesn't work, because it'd be a lot easier to do a lot more -- and was it mere luck that the entity was in the same bar as the Enterprise crew at that time, to then hype up events for everyone to swallow just as easily? (Nope, too much suggests Redjak can only enter bodies (and computer chips), but not psychologically manipulate others.)


Not to mention this:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Sheesh; two stereotypes (one being the opposite and inversion of what's told) for the price of one is very worthy of cringe. The scene discussing Scotty's newfound state is included, noting that if it were Arnold J Rimmer screwing up the task, would Scotty be set up for now hating all men? Even by 1960s tv standards, this is really rushing the setup to get the plot going.
 
Yeah, we didn’t see anything explicit, but the implications of a mob, presumably the entire community, in a no-holds-barred riot can send your imagination to some extreme places.

Honestly, given the broadcast restrictions of the time I think it was pretty explicit and didn't require a ton of imagination. I actually can't believe the censors allowed it. It's an amazingly effective sequence in one of my top ten favorite episodes. Plus, it gave us the rock-meets-head moment.

I alway have a good chuckle at people who criticize DS9, PIC or DSC for being “too dark” when the source material could at times be extremely heavy and dark, especially for the late 1960s.

I agree to a point and definitely endorse your main premise - original Star Trek was extremely dark overall. Let me emphasize that - extremely so. Now, S2 (which still had its dark moments, e.g. "Obsession" and the one I'm about to talk about below) took a bit of a different approach, but S3 returned to the horror-infused, somber approach of S1, and arguably took it to 11.

I never had a problem with DS9's darkness while it aired. However, in retrospect DS9 is not a very uplifting program, which is (I believe) why I now prefer Voyager to DS9 as my second-favorite Trek show, flipping their positions from back when VOY was on the air. Sometimes, I feel as though DS9, while brilliant, was being dark for darkness' sake. This is a very mild criticism, however. DS9's great; don't get me wrong.

I enjoyed every minute of PIC. I would have preferred that two characters' fates in S1 had been different, but the bleakness of some of the material in S1 and S2 was leavened by humorous touches and other redeeming qualities.

Now, DISCO S1 was just grimdark because the producers thought it was cool, and it made for simply horrible viewing. The sudden obsession with cannibalism? The preposterous violence of the Mirror Universe and the ("fresh" new-look) Klingons? It was outrageously over the top, and seemingly done for shock value with an attitude of "look at us, we have a Star Trek show and we can be just utterly DEPRESSING, GROSS, and DARK, dude!!" Noted, but Star Trek doesn't need to be Euphoria. And don't take my word for it - the total reversal by DISCO's producers and writing team (or by their replacements, or by new powerbrokers among the producers) in S2 and beyond, turning the show into a hopeful exploration of interesting themes and launching SNW, reveals everything anyone wants to know about how well the tone of S1 went over. Oof.


"The Wolf In The Fold". A great whodunit with great tension and acting. I loved the atmosphere. I've seen this episode many times and it still draws me in.

Glad to hear it! "Wolf in the Fold" is my second-favorite episode. Those who don't like it focus (understandably) on the elements of sexism, but I have a feeling that if even the harshest critics of "Wolf" care to rewatch it, they might find that element to be more minor than they remembered. In any case, I'll say this: if you pit Kirk and Spock against Jack the Ripper; if you write one of the most mindblowing lengthy sequences of amazing dialogue of any TV show I've ever seen (the Agatha Christie-esque briefing room scene); if you do Star Trek-as-murder mystery; and if you throw in little touches like (1) Kirk actually getting outmaneuvered physically and kicked into a bulkhead to demonstrate how experienced and dangerous this demonic entity hiding in the voice of Piglet was and (2) Redjac attempting to close the turbolift doors on Spock before sending the car into freefall (to name just two wonderful embellishments) . . . yeah, I'm here for that episode. There's a reason I can practically quote it from start to finish.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, we didn’t see anything explicit, but the implications of a mob, presumably the entire community, in a no-holds-barred riot can send your imagination to some extreme places.
Not to mention the heavily-implied rape of Reger's daughter, that was just glossed over by the inhabitants.

And here I was thinking I was the only one who read that book.
Reminds me of a line from Heinlein's Space Cadet. The protagonist and crew discover a ship that ended up with a dead crew due to a micro meteor piercing the inner hull as a space walker was coming in the outer door. The captain says "Lieutenant, may have to note to Command to not have the whole ship's company gathered around during space suit operations."

Lieutenant: "Yes, sir. Might be awkward to with a small compliment."

Captain: "It's awkward to loose your breath too."

Yeah, chills.
Nope. I read it as well... back around 1976 or thereabouts. I wasn't into science fiction until after getting hooked on Star Trek in November 1975, and immediately searched out every science fiction book and Asimov essay collection my school library had (I was 12 at the time).

Space Cadet is either the first or second Heinlein book I read (can't recall if I read it before or after Citizen of the Galaxy).

Kirk the Rapist; that was undiluted human impulse and nothing else.
And Spock, who treated it as something to joke about.

In “Yesteryear” a young Spock, a child, has to decide about putting his beloved pet to sleep to ease its suffering.

This is Saturday morning kiddie fare?
Did you never see "Old Yeller"? Or any other family movie where the dog dies?

There's a Canadian comic strip called For Better Or For Worse. The strip followed the lives of the Patterson family for years, until the artist realized how many years they'd had their dog, Farley, and he would now be old (they'd had him since he was a very young puppy). So she devised a storyline in which Farley would die while saving the youngest child from drowning.

Farley was probably the most-loved character in that strip up to that point, and his death caused an outpouring of grief among the readers. It was as if we'd lost our own pet. I cried for Farley almost as much as for some of my own pets who'd died. I can't even type this without tearing up, and this storyline happened decades ago.

This strip is considered an all-ages family comic. So young Spock having to make this decision about his sehlat is emotional, it's traumatic, and it's a normal part of growing up for anyone who has ever had a pet who either gets sick or is suffering from illness, an accident, or an attack and can't be saved.

Well, they returned Sam from the disappeared/dead, so I'm sure they cured the poor lady as well.
Sam just disappeared. The woman would have died.

Then when James Daly claimed he was Brahms and DaVinci and all those other clowns, I wondered why Mr. Multiple Celebrity couldn't buy himself a real woman or raise a human ward.
I tend to think of "Requiem for Methuselah" as an accidental prequel to the Highlander TV series. Years ago I ran across a reference to some fanfic stories in which Richie didn't die, but rather survived into at least the 23rd century and joined Starfleet. The stories didn't mention where and how he hid his sword.

The bit where McCoy says that Flint is dying because he left Earth makes me wonder if the type of immortality granted to the Highlander characters would indeed fail if they left Earth. That point was never explored in either the main series or in the spinoff series.

Flint didn't "buy" a woman or raise a human ward, because part of immortality (a point hammered home time and again in both Highlander TV series) is the pain and grief of watching mortal loved ones age and die, or dying young of illness, accident, or murder. The Immortals in Highlander can't even have children to ease this grief, because the tradeoff for immortality is that they're unable to father or bear children. So for those who want to be with a life partner, most would seek out another Immortal so they wouldn't have to experience this grief, or have to hide their own nature (Immortals don't physically age; they remain at the age they were when they had their first death - a problem for those who die as children, especially, as they can never grow up to become adults).
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top