Dalek Invasion still erased (SPOILERS)

[EJA]

OK, some minor spoilers for Season 4 of The Sarah Jane Adventures ahead, folks......















Apparently, the Dalek Invasion of Earth in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End is still gone from history, and the majority of people now don't belive in aliens. This is because the only things that got restored after the Time Crack was sealed were the things that Amy Pond remembered, and the Dalek attack was not one of them. Oh, great. Wonderful. Thanks for rendering that story totally moot, Moffat, despite the fact it featured MAJOR events in the lives of the Tenth Doctor, Donna Noble, Rose Tyler, Harriet Jones, and everyone on the planet. The fourth season finale may have had its faults, but it was still an important milestone in the saga of NuWho, and to say that it now never happened at all just feels like a massive cheat to me. Honestly, there are times I really hate the makers of these shows.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

It could be one of those events that still happened for all those involved in it.

Due to their being time travelers.

It remains to be seen if they will ever revisit the topic in Who. But in reality, they don't reference even the great big events all that often.

 

[EJA]

Did Donna still become the DoctorDonna and then so tragically loose all her memories of the Doctor then? Did Harriet Jones redeem herself by courageously giving her life to help save the rest of humanity? Did Mickey come back home? Because without the Dalek invasion, I don't see how any of these events could have taken place. Important things happened to characters, and now, thanks to Moffatt, they never happened at all. And that is why it irks me so very, very much. That fourth season two-parter wasn't just a random, inconsequential story that we can just ignore - It was IMPORTANT.

 

[The]

Apparently, the Dalek Invasion of Earth in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End is still gone from history

Huh? I just watched that two-parter for the first time last night, and they didn't mention the Daleks at all. Did you see a copy I didn't? Or are you just jumping to conclusions based on the fact that a spin-off show didn't reflect the exact continuity of a fifty-year-old program?

So people don't believe in aliens anymore? Fantastic! That means we can get into some really great storytelling, versus having to keep up with maintaining RTD's status quo. But, as for the Daleks and that invasion, that was never mentioned on SJA in the story you are referencing. Oh, but they were IN the Stolen Earth/Regeneration Cheat finale. So, there's your proof it happened. That's good, right?

Honestly, there are times I really hate the makers of these shows.

You mean, you hate that RTD has left and Moffat is in charge. I've noticed this. It's a shame, because I think Moffat puts out some good stuff.

I swear, between you and Skidoo, fandom's quota for doomsayers and teeth-gnashers has been filled...

 

[The]

Did Donna still become the DoctorDonna and then so tragically loose all her memories of the Doctor then? Did Harriet Jones redeem herself by courageously giving her life to help save the rest of humanity? Did Mickey come back home?

Yes.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Since the new series started they have been all over the place when it comes to aliens and who remembers what. I think it seems that no matter what events transpire (no matter the scale) the public is going to remain in the dark.

 

[Jax]

The Dalek invasion did happen because The Doctor remembers and am guessing so do The Daleks since the ones in TVOD seem to remember.

 

[EJA]

Apparently, the Dalek Invasion of Earth in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End is still gone from history

Huh? I just watched that two-parter for the first time last night, and they didn't mention the Daleks at all.

Exactly. This story deals with a group of people who suspect the possibility of extraterrestrial life, and nobody ever mentions those swarms of Daleks that invaded Earth a year or two back. After that, there could no longer be any doubt in anyone's mind that aliens do definitely exist, but the plot of The Vault of Secrets hinges on the vast majority of people on Earth still being skeptical. This scenario just isn't feasible unless the Daleks never attacked.

 

[EJA]

Did Donna still become the DoctorDonna and then so tragically loose all her memories of the Doctor then? Did Harriet Jones redeem herself by courageously giving her life to help save the rest of humanity? Did Mickey come back home?

Yes.

But they couldn't have though, could they? If Davros and all those Daleks were all erased by the Crack, they never came near to endangering all of reality with the Reality Bomb. The dimensional walls wouldn't have weakened, and Rose wouldn't have returned. Harriet Jones could not have died because the Daleks were never around to exterminate her. Donna couldn't have become the DoctorDonna and helped create the Meta-Crisis Tenth Doctor because the events that set this off couldn't have occured. Actually, when you think about it, Donna probably never met the Doctor in the first place, as JE strongly implied that Dalek Caan had a hand in their meeting, and Caan was eaten by the Crack. Oh, and Rose can't be living happily with the Meta-Crisis Doc, and Mickey is still in Pete's World.

It's really quite simple when you think about it.

 

[The Wormhole]

Apparently, the Dalek Invasion of Earth in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End is still gone from history

Huh? I just watched that two-parter for the first time last night, and they didn't mention the Daleks at all.

Exactly. This story deals with a group of people who suspect the possibility of extraterrestrial life, and nobody ever mentions those swarms of Daleks that invaded Earth a year or two back. After that, there could no longer be any doubt in anyone's mind that aliens do definitely exist, but the plot of The Vault of Secrets hinges on the vast majority of people on Earth still being skeptical. This scenario just isn't feasible unless the Daleks never attacked.

This actually seems consistent with Doctor Who. Helps explain why van Statten didn't kow what a Dalek was in 2012.

Besides, Moffat doesn't necessarily have any influence over what goes on on SJA. Just because he's Doctor Who's showrunner doesn't mean he has lordship over the entire Doctor Who franchise. The only reason RTD has influence over SJA and Torchwood is because he created those shows.

 

[VDCNI]

This has already come up on the Sarah Jane thread and I'll say it again.

It's a shared universe - stuff like this happens. It fits the format of the SJA if people don't believe in aliens so that's essentially what we've got. After all technically this is the same Great Britain which went through the events of Children Of Earth - given how traumatic that event was potrayed as you would expect some sign it happened but nothing.

They haven't specifically said what the status quo is now - so if the fans want to say it's because of the cracks then fine. In the same way fans have come up with theories as to how the First & Second doctor's only have one heart and after that they all have two. Or what the hell is going on with Romans's regeneration.

Doctor Who isn't Star Trek - it's never got that hung up on its own continuity, thankfully!

I enjoyed the two parter last week and my DVD of Stolen Earth/Journey's End hasn't been wiped from existence so I can happily go and watch that whenever I want. I can remember them so what does it matter if some fictional characters don't anymore!

 

[EJA]

sorry, but i just think it's stupid. ok, if the dalek invasion never happened, explain how the things that happened because of it are still there. as i said, no daleks = no death of harriet jones, no doctordonna. i don't know why moffatt doesn't just have everything in dw before his series get swallowed up in the bloody time crack. guys, you cannot just erase something like this. the point i'm trying to get across to you all is that what's being done with stuff like this is fundamentally damaging to the characters.

 

[The Wormhole]

Okay, it still happened, but for some unexplained reason, no one can remember it. Or they're choosing to ignore it. There, problem solved.

 

[DimesDan]

I swear, between you and Skidoo, fandom's quota for doomsayers and teeth-gnashers has been filled...

Exactly. It seems that EJA is constantly in a state of panic regarding Who and how it all fits together.

 

[Bones2]

I swear, between you and Skidoo, fandom's quota for doomsayers and teeth-gnashers has been filled...

I think that's a bit out of order. It's this kind of thing we're here to talk about. Personally, I couldn't care less if SE/JE is erased from time because I think it was complete shite, but if you have a strong view on something like that (and goodness knows I do on a load of other Who things) then it's not really on to just be mocked into silence on it.

I mean, we're not Gallifrey Base are we?

 

[HappyDayRiot]

It's really quite simple when you think about it.

Absolutely. It all happened. You're worrying about nothing. This is old ground.

 

[The]

I swear, between you and Skidoo, fandom's quota for doomsayers and teeth-gnashers has been filled...

I think that's a bit out of order. It's this kind of thing we're here to talk about. Personally, I couldn't care less if SE/JE is erased from time because I think it was complete shite, but if you have a strong view on something like that (and goodness knows I do on a load of other Who things) then it's not really on to just be mocked into silence on it.

I mean, we're not Gallifrey Base are we?

I wasn't trying to "silence" anyone. All I'm saying is, you wanna worry about something, pick something relevant to Doctor Who, not to just an agenda on continuity. And besides, given EJA's past threads, I feel this is more just anti-Moffat/pro-RTD feelings than anything...

 

[Guartho]

Clearly Who will die the same horrible death that Star Trek did when the 2009 movie came out.

 

[Bones2]

I swear, between you and Skidoo, fandom's quota for doomsayers and teeth-gnashers has been filled...

I think that's a bit out of order. It's this kind of thing we're here to talk about. Personally, I couldn't care less if SE/JE is erased from time because I think it was complete shite, but if you have a strong view on something like that (and goodness knows I do on a load of other Who things) then it's not really on to just be mocked into silence on it.

I mean, we're not Gallifrey Base are we?

I wasn't trying to "silence" anyone. All I'm saying is, you wanna worry about something, pick something relevant to Doctor Who, not to just an agenda on continuity. And besides, given EJA's past threads, I feel this is more just anti-Moffat/pro-RTD feelings than anything...

Well, I think it's better you argue the actual topic even if it's just a more elaborated variant of "it's not an issue, leave it out" rather than just ridicule. Makes for a nicer place. Obviously I've not much sympathy with any anti-Moffat/pro-RTD point of view, but just throwing labels at people is infuriating for the one on the receiving end and just not very nice.

Clearly Who will die the same horrible death that Star Trek did when the 2009 movie came out.

It died that particular death in 2005.

 

[DimesDan]

Well, I think it's better you argue the actual topic even if it's just a more elaborated variant of "it's not an issue, leave it out" rather than just ridicule. Makes for a nicer place. Obviously I've not much sympathy with any anti-Moffat/pro-RTD point of view, but just throwing labels at people is infuriating for the one on the receiving end and just not very nice.