D-7 Class Battlecruiser

[James Wright]

Has anyone ever figured out how the D-7 Class Battlecruiser which is considerably smaller then the Constitution Class Starship, could accommodate all of the machinery, computers and such even weapons,sensors, I mean everything to carry out missions and still be able to be manned by a crew of 438?

James

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Fewer luxuries, more cramped conditions for the enlisted, for starters.

 

[scotpens]

Has anyone ever figured out how the D-7 Class Battlecruiser which is considerably smaller than the Constitution Class Starship, could accommodate all of the machinery, computers and such even weapons,sensors, I mean everything to carry out missions and still be able to be manned by a crew of 438?

As a matter of fact, someone has. A gentleman by the name of Michael McMaster, to be specific.

Compared to the Constitution-class’s relatively spacious crew accommodations, the D-7 has cramped bunkrooms for its enlisted crew — and I assume at least some of those are double bunks.

(Also note the characteristically Klingon features like an interrogation room, mind-scanner booths, an “inspirational media room,” and a weapons proficiency range — complete with target animal cages!)

BTW, where did the figure of 438 for the crew complement come from? Is there a canon reference to that number?

 

[Emperor Norton]

Is it really that much smaller than the Constitution class?

The D7 is around 228 m in length, 160 in width, and 66 in height (I know certain schematics give different sizes, but the canon length according to Memory Alpha is 228, and the rest of the sizes are based on that, so I'm going with this as roughly the proper dimensions). The Connie is about 288 m in length, 127 in width, and 72 in height.

Here are non-canon schematics, btw.

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/klingon-d7-class-battle-cruiser-fasa-15mm-deck-plans.php

 

[blssdwlf]

I'm guessing it came from "Day of the Dove" where Kang's battlecruiser had 440 on board. 40 survived while 400 died on the ship.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

BTW, where did the figure of 438 for the crew complement come from? Is there a canon reference to that number?

There are these lines from Day of the Dove:

KANG: You attacked my ship! Four hundred of my crew dead. Kirk, my ship is disabled. I claim yours. You are now prisoners of the Klingon Empire against which you have committed a wanton act of war!

(...)

SPOCK: Scans indicate that our forces and those of the Klingons are exactly equal at thirty eight each. The Klingons control deck six and starboard deck seven, while we control all sections above.

However, four hundred dead could be just a round figure, and anyway from this we still don't know what the standard compliment of a D7 is.

 

[scotpens]

According to the McMaster plans, the overall length of the D-7 is 216.408 meters, or 710 feet — not much shorter than the Connie at a canonical 947 feet. But the internal volume of the Klingon ship is considerably less, with much of its length taken up by that skinny neck.

 

[Emperor Norton]

I'm guessing it came from "Day of the Dove" where Kang's battlecruiser had 440 on board. 40 survived while 400 died on the ship.

There's also an issue here too that that may not be the max, minimum, or average crew count for the class since the D7 battlecruiser was quite little explored (many times used, but little explored; you never saw any interiors beyond the bridge till TAS, for example, nor much description of the class).

Though the fandom does seem to place the crew count between a Constitution class equivalent 430 crew, and that 440 as a max. I'm not sure where the 438 number mentioned in the Original Post comes from, though.

EDIT: Hmm, reading the recent posts, I have to revise this since I suppose the 438 number is what comes from Day of the Dove, and the 440 number comes from somewhere unknown in the aether of fandmo.

 

[Emperor Norton]

According to the McMaster plans, the overall length of the D-7 is 216.408 meters, or 710 feet — not much shorter than the Connie at a canonical 947 feet. But the internal volume of the Klingon ship is considerably less, with much of its length taken up by that skinny neck.

The McMaster stuff isn't canon though. 228 comes right from Matt Jefferies.

 

[James Wright]

I'm guessing it came from "Day of the Dove" where Kang's battlecruiser had 440 on board. 40 survived while 400 died on the ship.

You are correct, I think that episode was the only one to mention how many beings "might" be in the crew of a Klingon Battlecruiser.

James

 

[Timo]

There's also an issue here too that that may not be the max, minimum, or average crew count for the class

...And, worryingly, it may not even be the correct crew count for this specific ship.

That is, Kang's losses might be just as real as Chekov's loss of his brother Pyotr. Or probably a tad more real, but not completely so. Or perhaps even grossly underestimated, to create artificial parity between him and Kirk. Kang would have little intrinsic reason to exaggerate or belittle his figures, beyond the natural psychological tendency to round up for impact - but he would have a well-established reason for speaking untruths because of outside influence...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

Maybe Kang's ship was the same shape as a D7, but bigger. Thanks to constant reuses of models, Klingon's do that quite a bit.

 

[Emperor Norton]

Maybe Kang's ship was the same shape as a D7, but bigger. Thanks to constant reuses of models, Klingon's do that quite a bit.

I don't believe it was intended to do that, or that it could be gotten away with even if it were. It's clearly a Klingon Battlecruiser just like ever other one seen in the series (meaning, a D7), and not a alternate design.

I don't really think it's hard to excuse anything stated for the D7. Why can't it have 430-odd people? What really prevents it? I don't even think it has to be really cramped to excuse that either; it's length may be shorter than the Connie, but its much wider. Seems like plenty of room for your average assortment of smooth-heads, bump-heads, and Federation spies.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I don't even think it has to be really cramped to excuse that either; it's length may be shorter than the Connie, but its much wider

Wrong; it has to be cramped. Length and width aren't the determining factors. It's volume, as stated by scotpens.

But the internal volume of the Klingon ship is considerably less, with much of its length taken up by that skinny neck.

 

[Timo]

In the good old novel The Final Reflection, as well as in the old RPG materials, the crew count of Klingon ships is increased due to them carrying Marines in tight cryosleep packages... And TNG "The Emissary" canonically tells us the battle cruisers are quite suited for cryosleep operations.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Crazy Eddie]

^ Now there's an interesting concept! It's possible the D-7 was originally built in the first place as some sort of medium-range expeditionary conquest vessel, which would make it the Constitution's opposite number in more than just tactical capabilities.

Their five year mission, to raid strange new worlds, to decimate new life and new civilizations, to boldly fight where no Klingon has fought before...

 

[Captain Rob]

Reminds me of a line from "Full Metal Jacket".
Something like: "Join the Army and see the world. Travel to strange foreign lands. Meet exotic and unusual people. And kill them."
As for that many crew on a D-7. What does the Navy say? "Rack em, stack em, and pack em."

 

[F. King Daniel]

Maybe Kang's ship was the same shape as a D7, but bigger. Thanks to constant reuses of models, Klingon's do that quite a bit.

I don't believe it was intended to do that, or that it could be gotten away with even if it were. It's clearly a Klingon Battlecruiser just like ever other one seen in the series (meaning, a D7), and not a alternate design.
.

They got away with scaling up the little, 12-man Klingon Bird of Prey in Next Gen, mostso in "The Defector", where it was big enough to threaten Romulan Warbirds.

We saw a D7/K'tinga noticably scaled up to match the USS Excelsior in "Flashback"

In Star Trek XI, Klingon Warbirds are briefly seen during the Kobayashi Maru test - they appear almost the same as the D7/K'tinga, but judging by the tiny windows in the neck (seen in the "Art of the Movie" book), they proportionally larger to match the Federation ships in the movie.


Truthfully, we're not supposed to notice, just like we're not meant to notice 400 of the 440 Enterprise crew sealed into the lowest levels of the Enterprise in "Day of the Dove" - what were they doing there? Epic bowling tournament?

 

[Emperor Norton]

Maybe Kang's ship was the same shape as a D7, but bigger. Thanks to constant reuses of models, Klingon's do that quite a bit.

I don't believe it was intended to do that, or that it could be gotten away with even if it were. It's clearly a Klingon Battlecruiser just like ever other one seen in the series (meaning, a D7), and not a alternate design.
.

They got away with scaling up the little, 12-man Klingon Bird of Prey in Next Gen, mostso in "The Defector", where it was big enough to threaten Romulan Warbirds.

We saw a D7/K'tinga noticably scaled up to match the USS Excelsior in "Flashback"

In Star Trek XI, Klingon Warbirds are briefly seen during the Kobayashi Maru test - they appear almost the same as the D7/K'tinga, but judging by the tiny windows in the neck (seen in the "Art of the Movie" book), they proportionally larger to match the Federation ships in the movie.


Truthfully, we're not supposed to notice, just like we're not meant to notice 400 of the 440 Enterprise crew sealed into the lowest levels of the Enterprise in "Day of the Dove" - what were they doing there? Epic bowling tournament?

But that's because TNG was silly ninnies.

On the Warbird, I don't think any size was stated. But to me, the windows don't appear much different from the D7.

 

[blssdwlf]

EDIT: Hmm, reading the recent posts, I have to revise this since I suppose the 438 number is what comes from Day of the Dove, and the 440 number comes from somewhere unknown in the aether of fandmo.

Both figures come from "Day of the Dove".

KANG: You attacked my ship! Four hundred of my crew dead.

​

On board the Enterprise, it would appear that Mara rounded up or mistakenly thought there were 40 Klingons beamed over as Spock later on counts only 38 Klingons.

MARA: We are forty against four hundred.
...
SPOCK: Scans indicate that our forces and those of the Klingons are exactly equal at thirty eight each.
​

Kang and Mara's total at 440 could be rounding up or possibly 2 more Klingons died between Kang beaming down and Kirk beaming them over.

438 is from Kang's first statement and Spock's count after the survivors beamed over. Since Kang could have also been rounding also or influenced by the alien entity, the actual number might be higher or lower than 438...