Currency & the Federation crew.

[TopperHenly]

Apologies in advance if this question has been asked before.

I know that currency as we know it is obsolete in the Federation but it is used in DS9 for example in Quarks for entertainment purposes. In the context of DS9, is currency allocated equally amongst the Federation personnel or unequally depending on rank?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Canonically speaking, we have no idea how citizens of the Federation get ahold of latinum to spend on DS9.

What we can be fairly sure of is, gold-pressed latinum is the only way to pay for anything on that station, up to and including food and drink at Quark's. At the very least, I'm sure that Quark doesn't accept Federation credits...

The way I see it is, Starfleet personnel who are posted to DS9 get a stipend of latinum to spend as they see fit. Starship crews passing through, may also have a way of acquiring some latinum, though I don't know how they'd go about it.

 

[kkt]

They never say on the screen. They decided to have latinum be useful as money outside of the federation, but that's about it. Other than that they tried to stay away from discussing the mechanics - for storytelling reasons as well as trying to make up something that would work. If you're watching a cop show do you want your police officer explaining the calibre and muzzle velocity of his pistol? Probably not.

 

[Orphalesion]

I have to go with the stipend version as well. As for ships I assume they also carry an amount of gold-pressed latinum and when they interact with species form outside the federation each crew member is allowed a certain amount of said latinum according to their rank to purchase things there. In my mind that's the "account" Beverly tells the merchant at Farpoint to charge when she gets that fabric.

 

[Tenacity]

The way I see it is, Starfleet personnel who are posted to DS9 get a stipend of latinum to spend as they see fit.

Or theres a method for Starfleet personnel and civilians to exchange credits for latinum. They just can't do it at Quark's.

The Bajorans use money, so some where on the station there's probably a bank.

 

[TopperHenly]

They never say on the screen. They decided to have latinum be useful as money outside of the federation, but that's about it. Other than that they tried to stay away from discussing the mechanics - for storytelling reasons as well as trying to make up something that would work. If you're watching a cop show do you want your police officer explaining the calibre and muzzle velocity of his pistol? Probably not.

Part of the fun with Sci-fi TV is fan discussion of filling in gaps to story lines or discrepancies with plausible theories.

It does seem obvious that while the Federation doesn't have a currency or a traditional banking system of it's own, it will need currency to trade with non Federation civilisations and even to interact with it.

As Quark mentioned about the Jem'Hadar, they come to his bar and don't drink, gamble or use the holosuite. Federation citizens buying locally produced items and services in non Federations planets and stations like DS9, if they could be replicated, would bring good will and hearts and minds. In doing so, they would be able to interact with the local population and wouldn't be perceived as being aloof and arrogant with their technology. Having currency would be used by the Federation. for diplomatic as well as economic purposes.

It would simply be the case that the Federation would either trade resources or services in exchange for currency and stored to be used by Federation citizens and personnel when required.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

In my head canon, where Federation personnel are assigned to locations where currency is required they are issued with essentially a "credit card" with a set limit (of Federation Credits) for them to buy goods and services they may need on that posting. This card can be used at automated teller machines (like the one just outside Quark's) that can allow them to convert FC into local currency if required.

 

[Jetboogieman]

There was another thread where this was discussed and I thought I’d throw this reply of mine in here as I think it’s a quarter decent attempt to explain:

This is actually one of the possibly biggest clues as to exactly how things might work on a galactic or quadrant wide scale and it acknowledges that resources are to some extent “Finite”.

We also get a slight clue in Voyager when EMH holograms are being used to mine dilithium.

So, Latinum in and of itself becomes the de-facto currency of the galaxy because it cannot be replicated and it somewhat resembles the gold of old.

The United Federation of Planets largest geo-political (for lack of a better word) asset is due to its vast territory, it controls most of the Alpha Quadrants dilithium, it’s what powers the entire Federation economy and all its gadgets and gizmos but in order to keep the power useage relatively stable, it issues credits for certain public goods and services such as transporters, while incredible public transit probably exists to get you all over Earth as well, if everyone used transporters constantly to have breakfast in Croatia, lunch in Japan and dinner in South Africa, the grid would have trouble keeping up.

The Federation uses things like their vast dilithium reserves and other commodities within its territory to trade with other species such as the Ferengi in which they would also acquire and maintain their own latinum reserves in order to trade with other species for resources and items that they may need.

It is conceivable then in this scenario, that Starfleet Personnel, stationed in remote Locations such as DS9, where the economic ecosystem is not a more closed system like a Federation Starship, could be given an allowance of latinum due to the different circumstances.

That’s around my best guess for the nerdy exercise.

 

[kkt]

"Dammit, Kate, I'm an EMH not a dilithium miner!"

 

[Anthony Williams]

In First Contact Picard states "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves, and the rest of humanity."

Does that really mean that money doesn't exist? Picard only states that the 'driving force' is the betterment of our ourselves and the rest of humanity not that money doesn't exist.

He (Picard) could still get paid at the end of the month which he could use to spend on DS9 when visiting. But the size of his pay cheque is not his personal driving force as it is now?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In First Contact Picard states "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves, and the rest of humanity."

Does that really mean that money doesn't exist?

No, of course not.

He (Picard) could still get paid at the end of the month which he could use to spend on DS9 when visiting. But the size of his pay cheque is not his personal driving force as it is now?

Exactly.

People work because they want to, not because they have to. However they can still get paid.

 

[FederationHistorian]

In First Contact Picard states "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves, and the rest of humanity."

Does that really mean that money doesn't exist? Picard only states that the 'driving force' is the betterment of our ourselves and the rest of humanity not that money doesn't exist.

He (Picard) could still get paid at the end of the month which he could use to spend on DS9 when visiting. But the size of his pay cheque is not his personal driving force as it is now?

Kirk, during TOS, would acknowledge when officers earned their pay for the day. But during TVH, he explicitly says that they don’t use money in his century. I don’t think Kirk is confused as to how the economic system works in the 23rd century.

Nog clearly points out that humans abandoned currency-based economics for philosophy of self enhancement. That’s a couple of years after FC when Picard suggested that acquisition of wealth not being the driving force for humanity. Meaning the same economic system from the 23rd century was still in use in the 24th century. Humans in general do not use money.

But it does bring into question as to whether it is optional for a Starfleet officer to have ownership of money, considering Nog also had bars of latinum while being a member of Starfleet.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Please don't take this as an insult, but how would you explain Federation credits, then? And the instances where we specifically see people getting paid in said credits, like the bounty hunters on DSC?

 

[FederationHistorian]

@Ríu ríu chíu , humans don’t use money. It was never stated that other species in the Federation did not use money. And considering how many species are a part of the Federation, Federation credits would operate like the Euro operates in the European Union; to create a unified monetary unit among the species that join it.

Its unknown if humans get Federation credits by default, possibly as an annual stipend from the Federation. Or if they have to apply Federation credits from the Federation bank. In either situation, they never have to work to acquire any. I would imagine that Federation citizens have the freedom to do what ever they want with credits i.e. store it in a vault, barter, gamble, voluntarily give it away, etc.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

@Ríu ríu chíu , humans don’t use money. It was never stated that other species in the Federation did not use money.

There is no distinction.

Humans are not a "special case" in the Federation. Earth is a Federation member world like any other; all such members are treated equally, and the same economic policy applies on ALL Federation worlds, Earth included.

So, logically speaking, either all Federation species use money, or none do. And since we know bounty hunters in Fed territory are paid in credits....well, you do the math.

Edit: You answered your own question, in fact:

considering how many species are a part of the Federation, Federation credits would operate like the Euro operates in the European Union; to create a unified monetary unit among the species that join it.

Exactly. Humanity is one of those species! So if all other Federation members use credits, then humans must as well.

 

[FederationHistorian]

There is no distinction.

Humans are not a "special case" in the Federation. Earth is a Federation member world like any other; all such members are treated equally, and the same economic policy applies on ALL Federation worlds, Earth included.

So, logically speaking, either all Federation species use money, or none do. And since we know bounty hunters in Fed territory are paid in credits....well, you do the math.

Edit: You answered your own question, in fact:



Exactly. Humanity is one of those species! So if all other Federation members use credits, then humans must as well.

UK was a part of the EU, but still kept the British Pound and did not use the Euro as a common currency. The only time that the Euro was used was when in Euro member states.

I do not think it’s a stretch that the United Earth, as a part of the Federation, still maintained their absence of currency-based economics, and did not use Federation credits as a rule. But when dealing with other Federation members, they were bartering something in exchange for Federation credits.

United Earth economics is a bit fuzzy and hazy here; we do not know how exactly they acquire money. We don’t even know if they have to register with a bank associated with another Federation world, i.e. the Bank of Bolias, since they never discuss their personal finances. But the UK-EU comparison makes sense.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

With everything available at the command to a replicator the need for people to get paid is moot. A monetary system would be required for trade with other races, but it wouldn't play much of a part in the lives of the average Federation citizen on a Federation planet or installation.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

With everything available at the command to a replicator the need for people to get paid is moot.

And what about those who don't have replicators?

 

[Anthony Williams]

Kirk, during TOS, would acknowledge when officers earned their pay for the day. But during TVH, he explicitly says that they don’t use money in his century. I don’t think Kirk is confused as to how the economic system works in the 23rd century.

Nog clearly points out that humans abandoned currency-based economics for philosophy of self enhancement. That’s a couple of years after FC when Picard suggested that acquisition of wealth not being the driving force for humanity. Meaning the same economic system from the 23rd century was still in use in the 24th century. Humans in generally do not use money.

But it does bring into question as to whether it is optional for a Starfleet officer to have ownership of money, considering Nog also had bars of latinum while being a member of Starfleet.

Human's might have abandoned currency ($£Euro etc) in a physical form but who is to say that digital currency still exists i.e. Federation Credits?

Money in some form must exist in the 23rd/24th centuries but it is not the same driving force as it is in the 21st Century.

The betterment of humanity is the driving force which would seem to mean that money no longer equals power and influence as it does in the present day. Your standing has more to do with your contribution to society rather than the size of your bank balance.

That said money is needed at times to purchase off world goods and services.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

And what about those who don't have replicators?

Communal replicator facilities (like the ships stores we see in TNG), pop in, replicate what you need and pop out.