Crossroads Demons and You?

[Silvercrest]

What's your problem? You made your case very clearly and his answer was no. He's speaking for himself, not anyone else. And he gave his reasons clearly, too. What are you going to do, badger him until he says yes?

No, just disgusted by people who obviously have no idea what it is to love someone that much. "I'd be sad" is a pathetic answer to the question, painting him either as someone who truly does have no idea what the question was referring to, or a sociopath.

Might as well be "hey, better you than me, bitches. I had the chance to save you and ensure both of you had a wonderful life, but hey, at least I get to spend the rest of my life having a par-tay. Woo! Anyway, you guys are vegetables, so I'm out. I'll try and muster up a tear or two later. I'm sure my Taco Bell will help with that. God bless spicy food when you need to fake emotions."

It's even better when you consider that in most religions, you're neither sentient nor conscious after you die. Your soul is a mindless part of you. Completely worthless for all intents and purposes, at least as far as most discussions go about the afterlife; you don't go to some wondiferous place, fully aware and cognizant, and spend all eternity twirling and dancing with your loved ones. In fact, I'm not aware of any religion that actively includes that Hollywood version of Heaven.

But you're willing to postulate one that includes an eternity suffering in hell. A little one-sided, what? And then you get on the case of those of us who won't sell their soul on your terms. And call us sociopaths.

All I can say is, I hope the demon can make a better case than you.

On second thought, I hope he can't.

 

[Othello]

Even if your life is the most agonizing drudgery ever, it is less than an eyeblink compared to eternity. If you believe in heaven and hell (and given that we're talking about making deals with demons in this thread, that's a fair assumption), then why would you even consider making the deal?

Some people would suffer eternal torment to save someone they love or some similar thing.

Not that hard to comprehend. "Any priest that tells me "God works in myeterious ways" when your young daughter/son is dying and a demon comes along and allows me to save them. Sorry but many peopel will happily tell that priest to take a hike and gladly sacrifice for their child.

 

[Othello]

Exactly.

Selling one's soul to the devil means an eternity in hell after death. Nothing is worth that.

Let's be clear. Nothing to YOU. Those are YOUR values.

Besides, remember what I said about Satan being the father of lies. He always lies. Anyone who serves him (such as demons) always lies. Anyone who makes a *deal* with him will get cheated out of everything. So in regards to the original post: That deal WOULD NOT WORK. Satan would renege on the deal, because that's all he does - is lie.

With all due respect that's the "mustache twirler" version of Satan. Simplistic to the core. Watch The Devil's Advocate if you want to see a TRULY SCARY version of satan. A thinking version of evil incarnate. A satan as you describe, IMHO, would be a moron not worthy of the title as evil incarnate.

And yes, I do know what it's like to love someone, and I am not a sociopath. Just because I wouldn't sell my soul for a loved one doesn't mean I don't love them. It simply means that I accept God's plan for them and that I *will* see them in Heaven.

That's fine. And while I agree that the poster you are replying to is a bit harsh and some of the motives and feelings he ascribes to to you may not be accurate and a bit harsh to be sure I must also say many people don't ascribe to your religious beliefs of what satan is and how he would act, the afterlife, the values of God, whether modern christian beliefs even come close to resembling what god truly stands for.. etc.. etc..

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Those are YOUR values.

Of course they are. Because I'm the one answering the question. Other posters are free to answer as they see fit, with their values.

 

[hyzmarca]

The literal genie trope has been done to death to the point that it has become a cliche. It is possible, with clear precise language, to craft a perfect deal. The problem is getting that deal accepted. With a being that is force to accept any wish, that's easy. But with a being that has a degree of choice in the matter, that can be difficult.

Anyway, I'd make the deal for eternal happiness, general and specific restrictions against mind alteration to achieve artifical happiness. I might end up in hell, but the terms of the deal mean that I'll enjoy it immensely.

 

[Vendikarr]

Watch a Canadian show called "The Collector." That show was based on the premise of the Devil's deal, and the consequences.

In this show, you get ten years, but as your time runs out, your deal begins to unravel.

It was a great show, and it's a pity we didn't get it here in the U.S.

 

[FordSVT]

What's a "crossroads demon"?

In the 1930s there was a Blues guitarist named Robert Johnson. Legend has it that he met a demon at a "crossroads" and sold his soul for the ability to play guitar. He was heavily influential on Eric Clapton, Led Zeppelin's Jimmy Page, and many other blues-based rock guitarists of the 60's and 70's. Mr. Johnson has a song called "Crossroad Blues" in which, if the lyrics were read in a certain way, seem to support this "sold my soul" legend.

The TV show, Supernatural had an episode that dealt this the same theme, and had so-called "Crossroads Demons" that would, in essence, sell you whatever you wanted in return for your soul.

The movie wasn't half bad either.

No, just disgusted by people who obviously have no idea what it is to love someone that much. "I'd be sad" is a pathetic answer to the question, painting him either as someone who truly does have no idea what the question was referring to, or a sociopath.

So anyone who doesn't say "Yes" to the question either doesn't understand the question or is a sociopath?

Why don't you come down and play with the big boys and girls if you can't contain your belligerence in this forum.

http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=33

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

If you guys would sacrifice your soul to eternal damnation and wish for a better series finale of Lost, complete with answers, would ya?

 

[Silvercrest]

No, just disgusted by people who obviously have no idea what it is to love someone that much. "I'd be sad" is a pathetic answer to the question, painting him either as someone who truly does have no idea what the question was referring to, or a sociopath.

So anyone who doesn't say "Yes" to the question either doesn't understand the question or is a sociopath?

That appears to be what he is saying. Currently I'm holding to the theory that he's the crossroads demon in disguise. And that consequently we're all safe.

On the other hand, it gives new depth to the term "flaming" on this board.

 

[Othello]

Watch a Canadian show called "The Collector." That show was based on the premise of the Devil's deal, and the consequences.

In this show, you get ten years, but as your time runs out, your deal begins to unravel.

It was a great show, and it's a pity we didn't get it here in the U.S.

Sounds interesting, is it on DVD?

 

[Othello]

Those are YOUR values.

Of course they are. Because I'm the one answering the question. Other posters are free to answer as they see fit, with their values.

I must say I am a tad disappointed that you ignored the meat of what i wrote. More specifically your characterization that the Devil/Satan/Demons is that simple.


A Satan that is like John Milton in the movie The Devil's Advocate is 1000 times more frightening than a simple trope that does nothing but lie no matter what. Evil isn't simple minded. That's the HEIGHT of hubris.

 

[Silvercrest]

If crossroads demons were real would you try and make bargain with one?

This is the meat of what you wrote. A yes or no question. The answer was no.

You then elaborated on it by saying that the demon or devil in question may not be as simplistic as we're describing. He may, in fact, be more evil or more frightening than what we said.

Okay, why would the answer be anything other than still no? Except louder. Not only "No!", but "Hell No!" (Or possibly "Heck No!", under the circumstances.)

What else did you want?

 

[Plan 9]

So anyone who doesn't say "Yes" to the question either doesn't understand the question or is a sociopath?

No. Anyone who's reaction to the question given with "I'd be sad. :'(" is a sociopath. Go read it again. The question included the stipulation that you loved these people with every ounce of your being and couldn't imagine living a single moment without them in your life. "I'd be sad :'(" is not a viable response to that portion of the question. That's what makes someone a sociopath. Someone who can't feel and has no idea what those words actually mean, his own answer of "I'd be sad :'(" included.

Your inability to separate that from the overall question is a failing on your part, not mine.

 

[Silvercrest]

Well, it beats "I wouldn't be sad."

You're still dismissing everyone who answers no as either a sociopath or not understanding the question. Sorry, but you can't force the answer that way. For some of us, it's still no. If you think you know better than us, then there's no point in asking us.

Seriously, what did you expect? Because you phrase the question a specific way, everyone has to agree with you?

 

[Smiley]

I haven't gotten the impression that it would be easy for anyone in this thread to give up a loved one. Speaking for myself, I would definitely go through the grieving process if one of my family members died. That said, I would move on with my life, and I would not sell my soul to have 10 more years with them on Earth. I will be able to spend eternity in heaven with God and them. Nothing and nobody mortal should be so important to us that we cannot live without them. That's pretty clear from the first commandment.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Well said, Smiley.

Maybe I should have used a stronger word. I wouldn't be simply sad, I'd be utterly devastated. I don't have a family of my own, but I have lost loved ones, and it took a good chunk out of my life. But I would never sell my soul to bring any of them back, or to extend their lives, or to do anything else. As painful as losing my mother, all but one of my grandparents, and my best friend (not all at the same time ) was, I know they're waiting for me 'upstairs', and that's what sustains me.

Evil isn't simple minded. That's the HEIGHT of hubris.

Perhaps not. But it doesn't change the fact that Satan cannot *ever* be trusted. Maybe not literally everything he says would be a lie, but whatever *isn't* a lie would be a truth in *service* of a lie, and that's essentially the same thing. You try to bargain your soul away, you are going to get cheated.

 

[Silvercrest]

^ As painful as losing my mother, all but one of my grandparents, and my best friend (not all at the same time) was

You too?

Perhaps not. But it doesn't change the fact that Satan cannot *ever* be trusted. Maybe not literally everything he says would be a lie, but whatever *isn't* a lie would be a truth in *service* of a lie, and that's essentially the same thing. You try to bargain your soul away, you are going to get cheated.

That's less important than the fact that you're going to lose your soul no matter what the bargain is. I like your utilitarian perspective from upthread. Even if he tells the truth, it's STILL not worth it.

 

[hyzmarca]

The question of 'losing' your soul is a red herring. You're going to 'lose' your soul anyway. You're not going to be able to walk the Earth as an immortal warrior righting wrongs whereever you go if you die as a human. At best, you go to heaven and have to follow heaven's rules.

The question then bescome whether or not going to hell is desirable. Now, if you're going to be tortured horribly or destroyed utterly, it isn't. But, there are depictions of hell that are basically heaven with more sex and better music (lets face it, all the good Rock and Roll is Satanic). If hell is merely heaven for the hedonist, then going there is a great idea if you happen to be a hedonist.

There is also the issue of the potential afterlife benefits of selling your soul. Instead of sitting around the after life all day with your thumb up your butt, you could get a fun job and superpowers to go along with it.

 

[Silvercrest]

Well, then the answer to that is whether having a Crossroads Demon take your soul to hell is considered a bad thing according to that lore. Our assumption is that it's a bad thing. If that's not necessarily true, then we have ask for the original question to be restated -- because the meaning is unclear.

 

[mswood]

Your wife and daughter were both in an accident with a drunk driver. Both are in a coma and not expected to live, and they both had a long, prosperous life ahead of them. And you happened to love them with every ounce of your being and cannot imagine living a single day without them.

Then a demon shows up and offers you a deal. All you have to do is surrender your soul and not only will both of them recover completely, but you'll have ten long years to spend with them and set them up so that they'll never have to worry about money or anything else ever again.

"Deal or no deal?"

No deal.

I do not make deals with demons. I'm on God's side, not Satan's. As for my wife and daughter: I would of course be sad if they died, but at least I'd know they'd be waiting for me in Heaven. And they wouldn't want me to spend eternity in hell any more than I would.

And remember, Satan is the father of lies. A deal with a demon is a deal with Satan, and thus would be a gigantic con. Not to be trusted. They'd find some way to renege on it. Anyone who deals with the devil gets cheated.

That's is of course working on the basic assumption that said wife and daughter aren't in actually in the Pitt. As the surviver wouldn't have any way of actually knowing where their loved ones are spending eternity.