Crossover with other franchises?

[Christopher]

The problem with crossovers between SF/fantasy universes, even aside from licensing issues, is that they can really only work as "imaginary stories."

Aren't all stories basically imaginary?

That's what Alan Moore said...

("Imaginary story" was the term used by DC Comics in the '50s through the '70s for out-of-continuity stories about situations that weren't intended to be "real" within the series' main continuity, like Superman dying or getting married -- the same sort of thing Marvel did in What If...? The greatest "imaginary story" was "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" by Alan Moore, which came out at the time that DC's whole continuity was being rebooted and was basically the final adventure of the Bronze Age or "pre-Crisis" Superman. Moore's narration contained the classic line, "This is an imaginary story... but aren't they all?")

Agreed. That's why I NEVER want to see a Star Trek/Star Wars crossover. I can only enjoy Star Wars as a strict fantasy; there isn't a shred of actual SCIENCE in it anywhere. Some argue the same is true of Star Trek, but I disagree. Some of the Star Trek episodes have been inspired by real science, and some of them have gone on to inspire future real science. And at least Star Trek never used the word "parsec" as a unit of time!

Star Trek was meant to be science fiction in the vein of the prose works of the '50s and '60s. Star Wars was meant to be "space fantasy" in the vein of Flash Gordon and John Carter of Mars. ST hasn't always lived up to its aspirations of credibility, but SW has never had any to begin with, being essentially a sword-and-sorcery epic dressed up with space-opera trappings.

The only way I could even begin to make my Sliders/Xena crossover make sense was to have an AU where Alexander the Great didn't die young, but made it all the way across Asia and over to North America. And since the time setting of Xena skips around from biblical to current year with NO attempt to explain the discrepancy, I figured I didn't need to worry too much about the Xenaverse showing up in modern-day California instead of ancient Greece.

Well, as long as you're treating the Hercules/Xena universe as the "home" universe, you can accommodate just about anything, since those shows embraced their origins in mythology and folklore and often basically admitted that they were pure fiction, playing fast and loose with reality and blurring the lines between reality and fiction.

Although you could borrow the conceit from the Sliders episode "The Guardian" that time flows at different rates on some worlds, so that even though it's technically the present, events on that world might be very far behind where they are on "our" Earth.

Conversely, you could play off the Xena clip shows that had clones or reincarnations of the main characters existing in the present day (in fact, in a present day where Xena is a TV show).

So you can combine unlikely SF universes if you anticipate the problems and come up with a creative, in-universe solution...

Yeah, it helps gloss over the historical differences if you go the alternate-universes route, although it's harder to use that to justify the whole geography and alien population of the galaxy being completely different (I don't remember there being any Vulcans or Klingons in the universe of Arrakis), let alone the laws of physics being different. Ideally I'd prefer a case where you can just do an honest crossover and treat shows as part of the same reality and timeline. But that's very hard to find in science fiction.

 

[Timewalker]

That's what Alan Moore said...

("Imaginary story" was the term used by DC Comics in the '50s through the '70s for out-of-continuity stories about situations that weren't intended to be "real" within the series' main continuity, like Superman dying or getting married -- the same sort of thing Marvel did in What If...? The greatest "imaginary story" was "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" by Alan Moore, which came out at the time that DC's whole continuity was being rebooted and was basically the final adventure of the Bronze Age or "pre-Crisis" Superman. Moore's narration contained the classic line, "This is an imaginary story... but aren't they all?")

I'll have to take your word for all of this, since I've never read any of that. In the '60s I read Archie and Disney and Casper comics, and in the '70s I was into Westerns (ie. Rawhide Kid, Kid Colt).

The only way I could even begin to make my Sliders/Xena crossover make sense was to have an AU where Alexander the Great didn't die young, but made it all the way across Asia and over to North America. And since the time setting of Xena skips around from biblical to current year with NO attempt to explain the discrepancy, I figured I didn't need to worry too much about the Xenaverse showing up in modern-day California instead of ancient Greece.

Well, as long as you're treating the Hercules/Xena universe as the "home" universe, you can accommodate just about anything, since those shows embraced their origins in mythology and folklore and often basically admitted that they were pure fiction, playing fast and loose with reality and blurring the lines between reality and fiction.

Although you could borrow the conceit from the Sliders episode "The Guardian" that time flows at different rates on some worlds, so that even though it's technically the present, events on that world might be very far behind where they are on "our" Earth.

I could, but that's too easy. Granted, that one particular Sliders episode was rather good, but ultimately it's just a gimmick like the Earth where time flowed backward.

Conversely, you could play off the Xena clip shows that had clones or reincarnations of the main characters existing in the present day (in fact, in a present day where Xena is a TV show).

I don't really like clip shows in general, and I LOATHED the cutesy-pie modern-day reincarnation episodes.

Nope, I'm using a really implausible, but not impossible twist on history, and I'm in good company in that. At least two SF authors have written stories where the Roman Empire never fell, just because Drusus became Emperor instead of Tiberius. If Robert Silverberg can do wacky history, why can't I?

...it helps gloss over the historical differences if you go the alternate-universes route, although it's harder to use that to justify the whole geography and alien population of the galaxy being completely different (I don't remember there being any Vulcans or Klingons in the universe of Arrakis), let alone the laws of physics being different. Ideally I'd prefer a case where you can just do an honest crossover and treat shows as part of the same reality and timeline. But that's very hard to find in science fiction.

Of course there aren't any Klingons or Vulcans in the Dune universe. Frank Herbert never had any sentient aliens in that series. Even the Tleilaxu are considered a form of humanity, and Guild Navigators start their lives as humans before they mutate. The difficulty with crossing Dune with anything is partly because it happens over 20,000 years in the future, and the whole anti-computer thing is a religious taboo that only the Bene Gesserit dare break - and not until after Leto II is safely dead, if I recall correctly. But the fanfic I read tackled these issues head-on, which was good. Nothing was swept aside with a bunch of technobabble.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Oddly enough, since somebody mentioned Highlander and Xena, the one crossover I *really* would have loved to see on screen is Highlander/Buffy...

 

[FreddyE]

Another way would probably be to have one of both universes be fiction inside the other..and then something happens. For example: There is nothing to say that at least the old Dr. Who series did not exist in Trek universe (the new show would not have existed since its creation would fall right into WWIII if I´m not mistaken). Since Paris is already fascinated with old scifi shows he could come across Dr. Who and make a holo novel. "Something" happens to make that holonovel "real". Of course you would have to find a new and innovative way to do that....something other then the usual "trapped on the holodeck". Maybe thery finally find a way to convert holomatter into regular matter. An experiment with the conversion technology goes out of control and converts the entire running holodeck programm.

 

[F. King Daniel]

There definately won't a Trek/Doctor Who novel crossover

Oh, but there was, albeit illegally published without the author's permission: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Doctor_and_the_Enterprise

 

[Christopher]

Another way would probably be to have one of both universes be fiction inside the other..and then something happens. For example: There is nothing to say that at least the old Dr. Who series did not exist in Trek universe (the new show would not have existed since its creation would fall right into WWIII if I´m not mistaken).

No, Trek's WWIII is still several decades in our future.

We do know that Star Trek exists as fiction in the canonical Doctor Who universe. "The Empty Child" had Rose referring to the Doctor as "Spock," and there have been various other Trek allusions in the following seasons of DW and The Sarah Jane Adventures. (Which makes the current IDW Trek/Who crossover miniseries problematical with respect to DW continuity -- but then, DW has never had much continuity or logic anyway.)

There's never been a canonical reference to DW as fiction within the Trek universe, but the novel My Enemy, My Ally featured Uhura and Lt. Freeman converting Tom Baker episodes to holographic format (although the clip "shown" in the book is not a scene that actually occurs in any real DW episode).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Although you could borrow the conceit from the Sliders episode "The Guardian" that time flows at different rates on some worlds

Actually, Otherworld got there first.

 

[Christopher]

^Err, I was referring specifically to the other poster's attempt to write a Sliders/Xena crossover, hence I was suggesting justifications that came from within those two specific continuities.

 

[Greg Cox]

Oddly enough, since somebody mentioned Highlander and Xena, the one crossover I *really* would have loved to see on screen is Highlander/Buffy...

There can be only one . . . Slayer.

 

[Timewalker]

For example: There is nothing to say that at least the old Dr. Who series did not exist in Trek universe (the new show would not have existed since its creation would fall right into WWIII if I´m not mistaken).

Say what? You must never have seen one of the classic Doctor Who episodes: "The Dalek Invasion of Earth" - the First Doctor, with companions Susan, Ian, and Barbara. It states that in 2164, the Daleks had taken over Earth, and the humans still alive were either slaves to the Daleks, or rebels trying to overthrow them. I don't recall 22nd-century Earth in the Star Trek universe being under the control of cybernetic aliens from the planet Skaro. And some of the Jon Pertwee-era UNIT material was set later in the 20th century than the 1970s, since there were time-traveling Daleks involved.

 

[Christopher]

^No, he's saying that he thinks Doctor Who could've existed as a television show within the Trek universe. He proposed having "one [or] both universes be fiction inside the other."

 

[Sci]

For example: There is nothing to say that at least the old Dr. Who series did not exist in Trek universe (the new show would not have existed since its creation would fall right into WWIII if I´m not mistaken).

Say what? You must never have seen one of the classic Doctor Who episodes: "The Dalek Invasion of Earth" - the First Doctor, with companions Susan, Ian, and Barbara. It states that in 2164, the Daleks had taken over Earth, and the humans still alive were either slaves to the Daleks, or rebels trying to overthrow them. I don't recall 22nd-century Earth in the Star Trek universe being under the control of cybernetic aliens from the planet Skaro.

To be fair, between Genesis of the Daleks and the Time War, it's unclear if the timeline in which the Daleks conquered 22nd Century Earth still exists or was overwritten.

 

[Relayer1]

Oddly enough, since somebody mentioned Highlander and Xena, the one crossover I *really* would have loved to see on screen is Highlander/Buffy...

By Jove Magpie - I do believe you've found one I could live with !

 

[Lonemagpie]

Oddly enough, since somebody mentioned Highlander and Xena, the one crossover I *really* would have loved to see on screen is Highlander/Buffy...

By Jove Magpie - I do believe you've found one I could live with !

It just seems logical that the Immortal could so easily be assumed by the Scoobies to be a vampire....

And we saw how well vampire-killing techniques work on Immortals in the series (i.e. not very - Immortal pulls stake out of chest, and exclaims "that bloody *hurt*!")

 

[David F. Weisma]

Anyone ever read an old Trek short story, Visit To a Strange Planet Revisited? Sort of the ultimate crossover.

 

[Relayer1]

Oddly enough, since somebody mentioned Highlander and Xena, the one crossover I *really* would have loved to see on screen is Highlander/Buffy...

By Jove Magpie - I do believe you've found one I could live with !

It just seems logical that the Immortal could so easily be assumed by the Scoobies to be a vampire....

And we saw how well vampire-killing techniques work on Immortals in the series (i.e. not very - Immortal pulls stake out of chest, and exclaims "that bloody *hurt*!")

In a dodgy Cockney accent if it's the Scoobieverse !

 

[Lonemagpie]

By Jove Magpie - I do believe you've found one I could live with !

It just seems logical that the Immortal could so easily be assumed by the Scoobies to be a vampire....

And we saw how well vampire-killing techniques work on Immortals in the series (i.e. not very - Immortal pulls stake out of chest, and exclaims "that bloody *hurt*!")

In a dodgy Cockney accent if it's the Scoobieverse !

In the relevant Highlander episode it was an RP accent...

 

[Christopher]

Anyone ever read an old Trek short story, Visit To a Strange Planet Revisited? Sort of the ultimate crossover.

It's actually "Visit to a Weird Planet Revisited" (reprinted in Star Trek: The New Voyages from Bantam) and as the title suggests, it's a followup to an earlier fanfiction story (by a different author, IIRC) called "Visit to a Weird Planet." The original story has Kirk, Spock, and McCoy beaming down to the Star Trek set, and "Revisited" shows what happened to Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley aboard the Enterprise during the same incident.

 

[ClayinCA]

Anyone ever read an old Trek short story, Visit To a Strange Planet Revisited? Sort of the ultimate crossover.

It's actually "Visit to a Weird Planet Revisited" (reprinted in Star Trek: The New Voyages from Bantam) and as the title suggests, it's a followup to an earlier fanfiction story (by a different author, IIRC) called "Visit to a Weird Planet." The original story has Kirk, Spock, and McCoy beaming down to the Star Trek set, and "Revisited" shows what happened to Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley aboard the Enterprise during the same incident.

And it's brilliant. The part where Nimoy tries to do a typically Spock bit to Shatner-as-Kirk while on the bridge and then has to leave his post because he's about to crack up laughing is fantastic.

 

[Timewalker]

Anyone ever read an old Trek short story, Visit To a Strange Planet Revisited? Sort of the ultimate crossover.

It's actually "Visit to a Weird Planet Revisited" (reprinted in Star Trek: The New Voyages from Bantam) and as the title suggests, it's a followup to an earlier fanfiction story (by a different author, IIRC) called "Visit to a Weird Planet." The original story has Kirk, Spock, and McCoy beaming down to the Star Trek set, and "Revisited" shows what happened to Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley aboard the Enterprise during the same incident.

And it's brilliant. The part where Nimoy tries to do a typically Spock bit to Shatner-as-Kirk while on the bridge and then has to leave his post because he's about to crack up laughing is fantastic.

The original story was printed in Spockanalia (I don't remember which issue). Both are a hoot!