Crew Rank Insignia?
- Thread starter Chaos Descending
- Start date
That's a good question, and I'm not sure if that was done for either series. Some of the TOS ones clearly have stars embedded in them and possibly other symbols as well, though it can be hard to tell any detail from the existing screen caps. Presumably, these might be similar to modern awards that have bonus insignia like stars or shapes for earning the award multiple times or serving more than one tour.
I get the impression that the TOS triangle patches were 60's era applique decorations with random colors and patterns that you could probably find in bulk at fabric stores. They got a bunch of them and used them to make the uniform decorations. I'm guessing the "fish" insignias used by Cestus III and NZ Outpost personnel were acquired in a similar fashion.
Fast forward to now, with a higher budget and more respectable production values, these little fabric patches evolved into custom-made plastic/resin/cloisonne devices that look a little more substantial. However, I doubt any of them have been assigned actual meanings... yet. I suspect this will only change if it is in service to the plot.
Fast forward to now, with a higher budget and more respectable production values, these little fabric patches evolved into custom-made plastic/resin/cloisonne devices that look a little more substantial. However, I doubt any of them have been assigned actual meanings... yet. I suspect this will only change if it is in service to the plot.
I think Gary Mitchell was supposed to be XO in WNMHGB, and IIRC his service rank was lieutenant commander as well. Seems a little junior for a starship the size of the Enterprise, but its possible at that stage in starfleet, O-4's were assigned as XO's of larger starships while full commanders were assigned their first, smaller commands. (Scouts, survey ships, etc.)
As for the stripe system used by TOS and SNW, it was confusing enough in TOS ( I learned it pretty young, though) and made more confusing in SNW by the use of thin versus broken stripes. The broken stripes of TOS at least made that system seem more different / unique. The thin stripes just make a captain's rank in Trek look like a lieutenant commander's rank in the contemporary world. I really liked the TOS system and the look of the braid on those uniforms; as I've mentioned elsewhere, the striping on the SNW uniforms looks like glossy duct tape glued on. The stripes don't pop, the use of fabric-matching colors disguises them too much, and as others have also mentioned, they don't always conform to the actual rank of the characters.
I think "Lieutenant Commander" confuses them.
The lack of prior military service by hollywood writers and producers really shows itself these days, versus the TOS era when most men had either served in WWII or Korea, or been drafted for a couple years to serve out of high school. The only shows that get these things right nowadays are the ones with dedicated military advisors- I about fell out of my chair a couple years ago when nu-Magnum showed up in his Navy whites with his SEAL trident below his ribbon bar. That's the kind of mistake Don Bellisario would never have allowed during the original show. The bearing of the actors and the conventions and terminology used in those days was on point and correct, and more of the general public understood it as well. These days, a very small percentage of people have been exposed to those things, such as the practice of referring to a lieutenant commander as 'commander' in day to day conversation, or a lieutenant j.g. simply as 'lieutenant' (or leftenant in the Commonwealth navies). The military has its own lingo- Trek doesn't have to use it, but these days, when it tries, it's almost as likely to be incorrect as correct. Not a criticism per se, just an observation on how things are.
Let's not open that can of worms. No one seems able to figure out if Spock or Gary Mitchell were XI in WNMHGB. Even the various tie-ins are contradictory on the matter with just as many saying Mitchell as there are those that say Spock.
Mitchell was a glorified red shirt. Nothing more.
I hope it's better than the waxy roll of tracing paper I found at the enlisted barracks at HMNS Portsmouth, UK. I was on TAD orders there in October 1980 for five days. I am glad I brought some of the USN's finest paper rolls in my sea bag. I was the Electricians Mate on duty at fleet landing on the first day of the USS Nimitz port call. The Engineman on duty with me saw me packing a roll of US Navy toilet paper in my sea bag and asked "what's that for?" I told him he would find out when we got there. I said "don't come asking for some from me if you don't take your own." He should have listened to me, and after we got there he realized it.
It didn't say Council Property, it said "Property of Her Majesty's Royal Navy." They must be proud of their TP, because I couldn't imagine why anyone would want to steal it.
Heh. We used to call USN bog roll 'John Wayne.' Rough, tough, and doesn't take shit off anyone.
Just a couple worms from the can...If Spock wasn't the First Officer he wouldn't have been wearing gold.
I couldn't disagree more. IMO Marines have the best dress uniforms of all. The ribbons are well placed and look really sharp. Just looking at their uniform tells you rank, how long they've served, how proficient they are with a weapon and some of the places they've been.
Never spent a day in the military, but I know this stuff. It's not hard to find.
It's typical of shows nowadays. Before, unless you had served or in a military adjacent connection (family, civilian contractor, etc) recognizing these details were usually not common, largely because they were either blink and you miss it, or not the focus. Now, images are crystal clear and sharp, and I can look up uniform standards with a click of a mouse. And I do, and drive my wife nuts with it as we watch MASH, or JAG, or even Blue Bloods and I'm looking up uniform standards and noting errors.
Star Trek costume designers and writers would do well to keep that detail in mind because the audience is going to hunt for each of them even worse that the military accurate people.
It's not, but the clear evidence is that most writers / producers / directors don't bother to try.
No. They try to tell the story best they can on a limited time.
Yes, they can get it right. Getting it right can cost time. So things slip through.
Of the complaints I have with SNW this is low on the list to rip the writers apart for laziness.
I was discussing that very issue with a friend of mine today. One thing that annoys him a little with SNW is the constant breaking of rules without real consequences. The first episode of this new season has Spock, who isn't even a captain or first officer, stealing the Enterprise in order to take it to a forbidden area. In TSFS and TVH, Admiral Kirk did that and was busted down rank even after saving Earth. In SNW, Lt. Spocks gets nothing more than "Don't do it again." Which we know he does years later as first officer.
On a side note, I remember years ago when "A Few Good Men" came out and my marine buddies were all making fun of Kevin Bacon's horrible hair cut. It really did stand out as in those days we HAD to keep our hair in military regulation so we were getting cuts every week or two.
If I had to pick my favorite Trek uniforms I would have to go with TWOK uniforms. Those looked the most militaristic of all the versions we've seen and really rival a dress blue except in red.
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The list of charges against Kirk was far longer than against Spock. And April was willing to let him suffer through a bloodwine hangover because peace had been made, rather than the political nightmare that Kirk had caused, as well as recognizing that they need officers due to fear of war.
That and consequences are not really Trek's thing.
Ugh. Hated it.
This has been one of my gripes as well, especially since without consequences, it added absolutely nothing to the story. Admiral April might as well have ordered them to go, or Spock making the decision on his own without consulting higher authority.
I definitely wanted Spock in the brig.
Would have been a nice ending scene.
Would have been a nice ending scene.
