Cpt Janeway annoys me

[2takesfrakes]

VOY was Kate Mulgrew's show, until Jeri Ryan signed on, and she did a great job of it. However ...

My preference would've been that Janeway was written as being "the youngest female Captain in STARFLEET," or at least notably young. This would've added considerably to the dimensions of the show, pertaining to how Janeway related to her bridge crew, especially.

First, Chakotay, being older and played by Beltran, would be relied upon for his guidance and experiences. But romance would've never come up, except for "Resolutions." There, you've got the typical Man & a woman stuck alone on an island together, who - ordinarily, in Life - wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell. They might brush with the notion, but I suspect the fans don't want to really see that. And, ultimately, nothing much would be different between them.

On the other hand, there's always been this talk of Paris and Janeway getting it on - aside from in their lizard forms - and with a young Janeway, this would work out, nicely. Of course, this wouldn't have to have any effect on Tom & B'Elanna's relationship, but fans would take great interest in seeing it play out. My pick to play The Good Captain would be Christina Applegate. She was especially photogenic and familiar to audiences. It would probably be a smart career move. And when Seven came along, her sexiness and popularity would probably keep Jeri Ryan's takeover well-contained

 

[Logopolis]

Although i'm fine with the Tom and Torres pairing, a part of me always wanted me to see Torres and Kim for the bad girl meets nice guy type dynamic. Almost like a Murdock and Elektra type of thing. Both have similar goals, just taking different but similar paths. Though I guess that's true of Paris and Torres given their troubled pasts.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Often, when hotties get with nerds, there's some 'use' involved. Sometimes, it's like a big "F.U." to their ex-boyfriend. Other times, the nerd's just there to tie them over, until the girl's built her esteem back up, a little bit. Other times, maybe he's a 'beard,' so to speak for an attractive lesbian. All kinds of reasons that do not spell "Love." Torres certainly let Vorek keep hoping, so I don't know that she's above a certain amount of 'usage,' of her own, when it comes to geeks and nerds and their ilk. She certainly had intimacy issues, as we know, and surrounding herself with guys like that whom she could control would fit the bill for enabling that mindset.

Even amongst nerds, Harry was too whiny, too clingy, too much of a pain in the ass for B'Elanna to even think about leading him on. Had she and Tom not been lost in space, that time, who knows if she'd ever admit to her own feelings for him. But when she did, boy ... she was so in Love with him, she couldn't get past it, sometimes. That's my kind of woman, you know? Hang onto your Man, like a hard core fan!

 

[Logopolis]

Even amongst nerds, Harry was too whiny, too clingy, too much of a pain in the ass for B'Elanna to even think about leading him on. Had she and Tom not been lost in space, that time, who knows if she'd ever admit to her own feelings for him. But when she did, boy ... she was so in Love with him, she couldn't get past it, sometimes. That's my kind of woman, you know? Hang onto your Man, like a hard core fan!

I think there's a thread in this. I may start one.

 

[2takesfrakes]

As Mr. Spock so famously told Sulu in STAR TREK II: The Wrath of Khan ...

"You may ... indulge yourself."

 

[Guy Gardener]

Even amongst nerds, Harry was too whiny, too clingy, too much of a pain in the ass for B'Elanna to even think about leading him on.

It's called a ball gag.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Harry needed a ball, alright. Two of them, in fact ... swinging in the wind.

 

[Sophie74656]

Often, when hotties get with nerds, there's some 'use' involved. Sometimes, it's like a big "F.U." to their ex-boyfriend. Other times, the nerd's just there to tie them over, until the girl's built her esteem back up, a little bit. Other times, maybe he's a 'beard,' so to speak for an attractive lesbian. All kinds of reasons that do not spell "Love." Torres certainly let Vorek keep hoping, so I don't know that she's above a certain amount of 'usage,' of her own, when it comes to geeks and nerds and their ilk. She certainly had intimacy issues, as we know, and surrounding herself with guys like that whom she could control would fit the bill for enabling that mindset.

Even amongst nerds, Harry was too whiny, too clingy, too much of a pain in the ass for B'Elanna to even think about leading him on. Had she and Tom not been lost in space, that time, who knows if she'd ever admit to her own feelings for him. But when she did, boy ... she was so in Love with him, she couldn't get past it, sometimes. That's my kind of woman, you know? Hang onto your Man, like a hard core fan!

When did B'Elanna let Vorik keep hoping. When he told her he wanted to get with her she let him know very clearly her answer was no

 

[Guy Gardener]

He stayed in engineering, under her, after Bloodfever.

That's bloody weird.

 

[Sophie74656]

He stayed in engineering, under her, after Bloodfever.

That's bloody weird.

Not weird, that was his job. Should he have resigned?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Neither of them are completely innocent, even if they were both sick.

He mentally roofied her, and she beat him like a dog.

13 department heads report to Tuvok daily.

Tuvok is two more department heads (Security/tactical).

Do Chakotay and Janeway report to Security daily about security issues, if they are also department heads? The First Officer is in charge of the department heads, which is probably a department on paper, who filters anything noteworthy enough from every Department to bother the Captain.

17 Departments Voyagerwide, where a person can work.

It's a big ship.

No one'd have wanted to be in the same department for the next 70 years, even a prestigious department like engineering.

 

[Logicpuzzle]

Neither of them are completely innocent, even if they were both sick.

He mentally roofied her, and she beat him like a dog.

13 department heads report to Tuvok daily.

Tuvok is two more department heads (Security/tactical).

Do Chakotay and Janeway report to Security daily about security issues, if they are also department heads? The First Officer is in charge of the department heads, which is probably a department on paper, who filters anything noteworthy enough from every Department to bother the Captain.

17 Departments Voyagerwide, where a person can work.

It's a big ship.

No one'd have wanted to be in the same department for the next 70 years, even a prestigious department like engineering.

And you think their would like to be lost in space, far away from home and help and have people do what they are second best doing?
While I could understand if Vorik changed department after Blood Fever, I don't see why they generally would want to rotate through the departments.

 

[Sophie74656]

And you think their would like to be lost in space, far away from home and help and have people do what they are second best doing?
While I could understand if Vorik changed department after Blood Fever, I don't see why they generally would want to rotate through the departments.

Agreed, it would make no sense to change departments. If you are a talented engineer it would make no sense for you to go to security or someplace else.

 

[2takesfrakes]

My 2 cents is this:

Try to imagine what it was like for Vorik in Engineering, after the events of Blood Fever. His coworkers, some of whom he's never actually had to interact with, are looking over at him, going, "... hey, is that ... that dude? You know, the one who tried to date rape B'Elanna? What the hell's he still doing here?" "Yeah, and he disabled the ship, too, so he could escape, after, I remember." You know how The Rumour Mill is, after all. Vorik's presence would've proved disruptive, in his unit, and would've had to be transferred. He would've brought down morale, which would've affected team efficiency. B'Elanna and Janeway would've probably ended up giving Vorik one of those "Work from Home" jobs, so he could hide in his quarters and keep out of michief. That's how it should've went ....

 

[Guy Gardener]

Over the course of a Seventy year trip, a talented engineer might like to vacation in another department for a year or two now and then to break up the monotony... And then there's the case of promotion, since no one is going up a rung in engineering unless B'Elanna dies, which is true for every department, right up to the Captain's seat. Everytime some one dies, or a few people die at the same time, Chakotay has to shuffle around the duty assignments, to either eliminate or conflate jobs, so you become a liability is you're only good in one spot, if the duty registry needs you to hop between departments because of man power shortages, and some one gets pushed up a rank maybe as they become a department head.

Would you rather be godoverlord of Sanitation, or B'Elanna's lackey for 50 years?

Realistically, if you play the percentages, you gotta go laterally before you can go up.

 

[MacLeod]

And you think their would like to be lost in space, far away from home and help and have people do what they are second best doing?
While I could understand if Vorik changed department after Blood Fever, I don't see why they generally would want to rotate through the departments.

Well one reason would be so they would have more knowledge about the various departments in case they had to be moved due to deaths during the seventy year journey.

 

[Tracy Trek]

How often did we actually see Vorik working in Engineering in the vicinity of B'Elanna after Blood Fever? I know he's in episode Counterpoint, but that's more because he's telepathic and had to be hidden like Tuvok and those refugees. I know he's in Renaissance Man.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Vorik was not on Tuvok's level of importance and could not hope to have a clean slate after his Pon Farr episode. Especially, after he took it to such an extreme. Vorik was such a pansy, besides that. It wasn't even impressive, when B'Elanna kicked his ass. They really poured on the indignity and shame, with Vorik. Having a woman smack him around so publically deprived him of every opportunity to $ave face, afterwards. And it's such a shame. Before that, he was so harmless ... and inoffensive.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The role of rapist was originally written for Tim Russ.

He took a dozen steps away from that, making believable excuses better than "I don't wanna" so Jeri Taylor tapped her son for his big moment, which is cool for Alexander for sure.

Point of note.

Garret Wang had been excluded from the episodes Fair trade and Blood Fever for bad behaviour on set. Wang had seniority over Enberg, so the script might have been rewritten into a Harry/B'Elanna adventure, if he hadn't been temporarily suspended from the cast, even though he's not Vulcan, but then neither is B'Elanna, so #### it?

 

[Thomas Eugene]

It seems to me that Vorik didn't lose face with this event - at least not to such a large extent.
Since this was his first Pon Farr, he wasn't prepared - he was too young. Now that he knows about it, I guess that next time he will take the necessary precautions (assuming he is still trapped on Voyager).

Also, the officers (including B'Elanna) also make the impression that they are well aware that Vorik's Pon Farr was just a biological need which he was not prepared for. Now that everybody knows about the incident, they will probably be on the alert seven years later. But I guess they have accepted the reality of what it means to be a Vulcan and they don't make the impression they look down upon him for what he had done. B'Elanna, who was the victim of the whole thing, seems to be quite at ease when she is around Vorik in later episodes. This suggests to me that if she has accepted him without condition, most of the others on the ship have, too.

But I might be wrong, of course. Just guessing.

The role of rapist was originally written for Tim Russ.

He took a dozen steps away from that, making believable excuses better than "I don't wanna"

This is interesting. Was that so?
And do we know why Tim Russ shied away from the part? Did he think that somehow that would hurt the character of Tuvok? Or did have have other reasons?

Also, this started out as a thread where someone doesn't like Janeway. How did we end up talking about Vorik and Pon Farr?