Could this be set in the Kelvin timeline?

[cooleddie74]

Never mind the fact that the Enterprise in DSC was launched in 2245 and her first Captain was Robert April, as opposed to the Kelvin Timeline where the Enterprise wasn't launched until 13 years later and her first captain was Christopher Pike. So...yeah.

How is this even a serious debate? I mean, I know Trekkies like or even love an argument but come on.

 

[fireproof78]

How is this even a serious debate? I mean, I know Trekkies like or even love an argument but come on.

Because individuals enjoy conspiracy theories. One need only look at Midnight's Edge and the like, and see posts posted here that are designed as serious discussions of spurious content.

 

[cooleddie74]

And people wonder why we as a group are so lampooned and not taken that seriously. I'm one of us and I'd be reluctant to.

 

[Nerys Myk]

This is not the Kelvin Timeline. At all. Like, not even close.

The Enterprise alone should tell people that. It's basically the TOS Enterprise with a CBS All Access twist. It may not visually line up with TOS the way it probably should but the idea that this is somehow the Kelvin Timeline and the producers just don't want to tell us is pretty insane.

First day in Trek fandom?

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

How is this even a serious debate? I mean, I know Trekkies like or even love an argument but come on.

 

[Yistaan]

Basically, I don't like the way this series stamps on the TOS timeline and hos un-Trek-ish it is... however I do enjoy it as a show regardless of that. So I was wondering, as I did not delve into the second season yet, how could the show fit in the Kelvin timeline, and if anything wherein prevents such connection.

The USS Enterprise is said to be brand new on its first mission in 2258 in the Kelvin timeline (they even show the construction of Kelvin timeline Enterprise in 2255).

The Enterprise is shown as already existing as far back as 2250 in Discovery, from Pike's personnel file (not to mention the ship's appearance on Discovery in 2257).

 

[cooleddie74]

I don't even know why I feign surprise anymore.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Remember!
View attachment 8215

NEVER!

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

NEVER!

Change is gonna come...and go...then come again.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Change is gonna come...and go...then come again.

View attachment 8217

He goes from a TV police detective working for Rock Hudson, and then to a naive robot cop named "Yoyo".

 

[Sir Stewart Wallace]

Mac and C.H.E.E.S.E.

 

[cooleddie74]

Augment Klingons: Strong warriors, but adorable enough to date your daughters.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

The two problems being that they had them in Enterprise - ie. they had ridges both before and after TOS - and identical appearance to Vulcans was a plot point in Balance of Terror.

That makes TOS the canon outlier.

Given Manny Coto running the show by that point trying to give closer ties to TOS, you would assume he'd have presented the Romulans without ridges, yet he went with it.

I don't see how Discovery can be based on the Kelvin timeline...based on the Kelvin timeline.

Midnight's Edge and the like loves to try to lump in Discovery with Kelvin because they believe fans hate Kelvin simply on principle. It's weird fixations like window viewscreens that make their heads explode.

 

[cooleddie74]

Window viewscreens of a sort actually exist in the Prime Timeline in ENT. During the launch ceremony for Enterprise NX-01 the archival recording of Zefram Cochrane's dedication speech for the Warp Five Complex is projected onto a transparent window overlooking the NX-01 in drydock. If a big window facing the vacuum of space with pop-ups exists in the 22nd century of the Prime Timeline then window viewscreens on 23rd century starships isn't that big of a stretch.

The real nitpick is whether or not they look good and fit in aesthetically with other Starfleet viewscreens of the era, not their technical feasibility.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

If a big window facing the vacuum of space with pop-ups exists in the 22nd century of the Prime Timeline then window viewscreens on 23rd century starships isn't that big of a stretch.

A window viewscreen is confirmed in Requiem for Methuselah:

 

[XCV330]

Window viewscreens of a sort actually exist in the Prime Timeline in ENT. During the launch ceremony for Enterprise NX-01 the archival recording of Zefram Cochrane's dedication speech for the Warp Five Complex is projected onto a transparent window overlooking the NX-01 in drydock. If a big window facing the vacuum of space with pop-ups exists in the 22nd century of the Prime Timeline then window viewscreens on 23rd century starships isn't that big of a stretch.

The real nitpick is whether or not they look good and fit in aesthetically with other Starfleet viewscreens of the era, not their technical feasibility.

Though the inside of the Sarajevo types are never shown, they seem to pretty clearly be covered with bow facing windows on their superstructure.

The XCV-330 might have been all front window. NX-Alpha, bow windows. Phoenix.. windows. I think the Franklin had a window. Not sure. Windows weren't all that uncommon apparently. I have never understood that anti-window people. I think one or two anti-window zealots were extremely loud about it and the herd caught on and joined in, each one believing their window hatred was an original gut feeling.

 

[yotsuya]

I treat it as a third timeline. A reboot. As Star Trek it is missing a lot. For general science fiction it is pretty good. To relate to the Kelvin timeline it would have to be able to connect to the depiction of the Kelvin. It doesn't. The Kelvin crew are dressed in tri-color uniforms and in Discovery they look closer to the Enterprise NX-01 uniforms. Frankly I don't see anything that has been done in the last decade that fits with the original timeline in any way. The Kelvin doesn't and nothing in Discovery does. Now, Discovery is sticking close to the original timeline, but everything has been revised. Some seem to forget that The Cage was wrapped into canon when the majority of it was included in The Menagerie (about 10 minutes of The Cage was cut, but the time is set making the uniforms, weapons, basically everything canon from then on - the missing minutes don't include much that is new or different and didn't enter canon until they were aired more than 20 years later). So TOS canon has always included The Cage set 13 years before The Menagerie. By setting Discovery between The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before and ignoring the ship design, uniforms, weapons, etc. they made a reboot and new timeline. It is like they copied the original and did some photoshop on it, but it is different from the original. Enterprise did a brilliant job of showing us how well the original design would work in a modern show and there were ways they could have done that with this, but they chose not to. It's like no one on Discovery has actually watched TOS. They didn't even bother to use Memory Alpha as a resource. A few quick queries and they would have known how big they blunders they are making were.

 

[XCV330]

By setting Discovery between The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before and ignoring the ship design, uniforms, weapons, etc. they made a reboot and new timeline. It is like they copied the original and did some photoshop on it, but it is different from the original. Enterprise did a brilliant job of showing us how well the original design would work in a modern show and there were ways they could have done that with this, but they chose not to. It's like no one on Discovery has actually watched TOS. They didn't even bother to use Memory Alpha as a resource. A few quick queries and they would have known how big they blunders they are making were.

Why do I bother. But here I go again.

Visuals are not narrative continuity unless that visual is intrinsically important to the story in that specific format. Hamlet is hamlet no matter if he wears a red shirt or a green shirt or body paint and a rocking codpiece. Hamlet does need to pick up Yorik's skull and not an empty water bottle, however. But the skull prop can be any old skull you happen to have backstage. If Trek fans were Shakespeare fans they'd be measuring the jaw line and checking teeth count to make sure it was a canon skull.

Enterprise did indeed show a 60's era set. I happen to like TOS and I like those sets, more for nostalgia. But Season 4 of enterprise was about throwing extremely well made cupcakes to an audience that had been handed a lot of plain toast for too long and probably wasn't going to get any more trek for a long while. It was awesome. But you can move on with out accepting some of the things that occurred in it as a roadblock to accepting anything else later. just a show.

By your logic, Where No Man Has Gone Before takes place in a different reality from the Cage or later episodes because the uniforms are out of place. I can't convince you of this. If you want it to be an alternate reality, fine.

 

[fireproof78]

The real nitpick is whether or not they look good and fit in aesthetically with other Starfleet viewscreens of the era, not their technical feasibility.

When in reality, there is room for both. Also, as demonstrated by Pike, apparently there is a lot of room for commanding officer preference.

By your logic, Where No Man Has Gone Before takes place in a different reality from the Cage or later episodes because the uniforms are out of place. I can't convince you of this. If you want it to be an alternate reality, fine.

Also, TMP, TWOK, and the like

Sorry, I'll join in with you on the fact that this is a repetitious discussion.

 

[Campe]

Also, TMP, TWOK, and the like

Nothing is canon after "CHECK THE CIRCUIT!" Gene Roddenberry really screwed it up with Tyler's line "All operating, sir." Total violation.