Really the only difference is visual. And if it helps people to sleep better at night to wave that away, sure, it can take place in Prime 2.0. Doesn’t bother me any.
Could this be set in the Kelvin timeline?
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Really the only difference is visual. And if it helps people to sleep better at night to wave that away, sure, it can take place in Prime 2.0. Doesn’t bother me any.
I just don't get hung up on the whole universes thing. There could be a billion of them. Every single episode could be its own. It doesn't really matter except to say that whoever owns the franchise gets to call it.
That it is a visual re-imagining is beyond dispute. These shows have to work by the same sense of make believe we grew up with. So if someone wants to take, say, the narratives of DSC and in their mind rewash it with TOS era sets, why not?
The only importance continuity has at all, apart from the happiness derived from thinking about the details of it all (and would any of us be posting on here if we weren't into the minutiae) is keeping a story comprehensible, and at 50+ years this is a really long story.
I don't think Discovery fits as a coherent story line in the narrative fork that the Abrams movies took. Visually just a bit, but in cause and effect, no. With minor differences it fits pretty well in what everyone calls Prime, except visually. And that's fine with me. It's all different degrees of re-imagining. The longer story remains coherent for the most part.
i'm not trying to fall down the rabbit hole here... i know discovery is set in the prime universe because the producers said so (end of story), but if the show was set 5-10 years prior and we ignored that bit about the klingons in into darkness, i think discovery could exist comfortably in the kelvin timeline. more comfortably than it does in the prime universe.
but again, rabbit hole.
I think if one watches and sees it as fitting with the rest, great. Just using the "CBS says so" line is weak.
Not necessarily you, as I've seen you go deeper than that. But some folks, it seems like they don't have faith in what they are seeing, and need that reinforcement from a corporate declaration.
So, the Disco verse is an enclosed pimple on the Prime verse?
i like this.
i think "creative intent" is important. but personally, i can't reconcile it with the other parts of the franchise, so i don't try anymore. it's almost an amalgam of star trek eras... baseline star trek. i can live with it.
While we were told it's in the prime universe and to compare, I could hold up a banana and say it's an orange. Doesn't mean it is? Looking at episodes of DSC that refer to TOS, does DSC line up with TOS believably? Not fully, since ENT, TNG, TWOK, etc, also slipped on continuity but the issue might be that of degree. Even Chekov could be explained away, though once DSC's series finale is told we'll then know for sure what arcs and revelations exist or if these episodes are being made without much detail.
Especially with the 25% different mandate and all, it might have been a lot more accessible and believable if it was in the Kelvin timeline where there's a LOT more freedom.
Producers said the show is in the Prime universe. They also say Pike's inclusion in DSC takes place after "The Cage", which is hard to believe given how much different Pike is. Or the little I could sit through without retching, though to be fair I retched through bits of "The Cage" for other reasons as well. And that's just the surface being scratched. I refuse to mention the other character, aka the Vulcan Chainsaw Massacre Murderer until the finale is done with since it's too early to tell why he's been written this way. For the Prime universe, anyway. There's either a reason for such a paradigm shift, or the reason flopped and he's now a mockery of the original character.
Being behind a pay-for service, one that still puts out commercials on top of the basic fee*, also hinders potential audiences. Though the episodes released for free weren't necessarily the ideal episodes to showcase the series with. The recent episode put out on YouTube, and lack of possible interest based on view count, can also be explained by lack of advertising more than anything else that most detractors seemingly enjoy pointing out.
* sponsors pay the network in turn for airtime for commercials for products and we pay for their products so it could be argued we pay for some of the show, albeit indirectly. That's a debate in of itself. They have a higher tier that is commercial-free. Depending on frequency of commercials shown on the basic tier, it may or may not be worth the additional fee.
Especially with the 25% different mandate and all, it might have been a lot more accessible and believable if it was in the Kelvin timeline where there's a LOT more freedom.
Producers said the show is in the Prime universe. They also say Pike's inclusion in DSC takes place after "The Cage", which is hard to believe given how much different Pike is. Or the little I could sit through without retching, though to be fair I retched through bits of "The Cage" for other reasons as well. And that's just the surface being scratched. I refuse to mention the other character, aka the Vulcan Chainsaw Massacre Murderer until the finale is done with since it's too early to tell why he's been written this way. For the Prime universe, anyway. There's either a reason for such a paradigm shift, or the reason flopped and he's now a mockery of the original character.
Being behind a pay-for service, one that still puts out commercials on top of the basic fee*, also hinders potential audiences. Though the episodes released for free weren't necessarily the ideal episodes to showcase the series with. The recent episode put out on YouTube, and lack of possible interest based on view count, can also be explained by lack of advertising more than anything else that most detractors seemingly enjoy pointing out.
* sponsors pay the network in turn for airtime for commercials for products and we pay for their products so it could be argued we pay for some of the show, albeit indirectly. That's a debate in of itself. They have a higher tier that is commercial-free. Depending on frequency of commercials shown on the basic tier, it may or may not be worth the additional fee.
People can change, and remember he was also going through a lot of shit in that episode. We were not seeing him at his best.
You can't judge an entire character on a single episode.
Hyperbole much?
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He's being played by a different actor. They took the easy option not to find whatever DNA still existed from Jeffery Hunter, had an unethical North Korean scientist clone him and wait 30 years to film those scenes. How hard can that be to understand?
Do you feel modern Shakespeare productions are unbelievable because they don't generally use men for female roles?
It takes time to adjust when one actor has been connected to a specific role for fifty-plus years. The only real thing that has thrown me about Mount as Pike is his odd accent.
If I were the same person I was 5 years ago...I'd be 5 years younger. Turns out, I'm still old and had experiences during the last 5 years that made me a slightly different person than my younger self. people aren't static. if characters are written that way, never changing, always staying the same archetype, that's just not good storytelling and pretty boring.
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Makes sense. Pike in "The Cage" is fresh from the massacre at Rigel VII which cost the lives of several members of his crew. So that's why he's so brooding and morose. By the time of DSC, he's had time to process that, get over the grief, and be back to the Pike we're seeing now.
Odd? In what way?
Sometimes he lapses into something that sounds like a mix of Southern US and something else. Not a deal breaker.
You hit the nail on the head. This is what the Star Trek nostalgists is all about. Star Trek is supposed to be whatever was their *awakening* to the series was, and should never ever change. And if something at all different comes along it better look, talk, sound and smell like their first love or its not Star Trek. And this is sad, because there is so much variety to be found in the franchise that can open ones eyes and ones heart when a fan allows himself to accept something beyond their very narrow vision of what the show is supposed to be.
Yes, people like you want to narrowly define Star Trek into a fruit that's pretty much engineered to go extinct at the drop of a hat. For Trek to survive and grow it can't be just a banana, it also can be an orange, and a kiwi and all sorts of other varieties of fruit.
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