Could the Dominion War have been averted?

[MacLeod]

Given the Founders xenophobia war was inevitable and I doubt very much could have been done to avoid it.

From what we can infer from DSN, Dominion Space didn't as yet reach the GQ end of the wormhole. The Dominion appeared to lay claim to the space after the Federation and friendly races started laying claim to it.

The Dominion fired the first shots by attacking vessels and destroying colonies. They appeared to be no attempt at making contact to establish a peacful dialouge

You can argue that mining the wormhole was provocative, but the Dominion could have done exactly the same too their side of the wormhole to prevent ships coming into the region they claimed.

 

[Navaros]

Of course the Dominion War could have been averted.

All the Feds had to do was stay out of the GQ, like they were told.

 

[BennyRussel]

Of course the Dominion War could have been averted.

All the Feds had to do was stay out of the GQ, like they were told.

No way.

The Dominion was founded in part due to the belief that "solids" could not be trusted and the Changelings should control them in order to survive.

The founders had an interest in entering and controlling the AQ from the beginning as stated in "The Search"

Let's say for example, you had a neighbor you have not yet met. You go to his house, knock on the door to say hello.

He takes one look at you and says "If you set foot on my property again, I will kill you and your wife and enslave your children." and then he shoots your dog to show he is serious and calmly closes the door.

Would you then go back home and just stay out of his way? No, because anyone that violent, angry and unstable would eventually find another excuse to do you harm.

This is what the Dominion did to the UFP and the AQ. Even if the UFP never entered the DQ, it was only a matter of time before Founders attacked. In fact, the wormhole saved the AQ since it allowed the UFP to learn of the Dominion and prepare for their arrival. Otherwise, the attack would have come as a surprise (albeit many years later)

 

[blackzoid]

Ha, Ha, Ha.
Could the Dominion war have been averted? OF COURSE it could have been averted!
A single entry point into Federation space, a natural choke point which could have been easily covered at any stage by a fleet of ships or perhaps mined if no ships were around........and the Federation at no stage (until its far far far too late) get off their arse and do the competent thing.

Remember the end of the first epsiode of Stargate Sg1. What did the SGC do..... they created an iris to protect Earth from attackers (though ships could still attack, its a good first step).
And yet the Federation failed to stop the Dominion. And they had YEARS to prepare. Idiots, complete idiots. Its shocking how incompetent the Federation is.

 

[Sindatur]

Sure it could've been prevented, if Starfleet had learned how to Speak Vorta and bowed down in surrender and service of the Founders

 

[MacLeod]

Ha, Ha, Ha.
Could the Dominion war have been averted? OF COURSE it could have been averted!
A single entry point into Federation space, a natural choke point which could have been easily covered at any stage by a fleet of ships or perhaps mined if no ships were around........and the Federation at no stage (until its far far far too late) get off their arse and do the competent thing.

Remember the end of the first epsiode of Stargate Sg1. What did the SGC do..... they created an iris to protect Earth from attackers (though ships could still attack, its a good first step).
And yet the Federation failed to stop the Dominion. And they had YEARS to prepare. Idiots, complete idiots. Its shocking how incompetent the Federation is.

As I recall from SG-1, all the Iris did was to prevent an attack coming through the stargate. It took a year or so after the Iris was in place for ships to arrive.

To Translate that to DSN, it might take 70 years for those ships to arrive, but they would still arrive.

What do you think would have happened then, peace or war?

 

[blackzoid]

To take the SG comparison to DSN ( as regards the Gou'ld ships eventually reaching Earth in the same manner as the Dominion attacking from the Gamma Quadrant via conventional warp drive), 70 years is a long time.

A lot could happen to the Federation/Dominion in 70 years:

1: The Dominion could have been assimilated by the Borg.
2: They may have suffered massive internal revolution, the Gamma quadrant is 70k light years away, so the Dominion would have to conquer all the way to the Alpha Quadrant. Thats a massive empire to maintain for just the Jem'hadar.
3: More of the 100 Changelings may have returned which could change their viewpoints on solids
4: The Federation may become much more advanced due to tech from returning Voyager.
5: Other unknown events in future
Etc.

70 years is a great head start to prepare for any war. Plus the minefield could be deactivated in small sections to allow incursions against the Gamma Quadrant Dominion at any stage while protecting the Alpha Quadrant.

The Federation blew their massive strategic advantage of the choke point. Its staggering incompetence.

 

[bullethead]

The only way it could've been averted was traveling back in time to just after the baby Changelings were sent out into the galaxy and taking a Genesis Device to their homeworld. The Founders and their ideology reinforcing paranoid isolation essentially cut off any and all chance of reaching a peaceful solution to their problems until Section 31's virus forced their hand when Cardassia fell.

 

[blackzoid]

The only way it could've been averted was traveling back in time to just after the baby Changelings were sent out into the galaxy and taking a Genesis Device to their homeworld. The Founders and their ideology reinforcing paranoid isolation essentially cut off any and all chance of reaching a peaceful solution to their problems until Section 31's virus forced their hand when Cardassia fell.

I don't think you've quite grasped the theme of Star Trek yet.

 

[Stephen!]

Given the Founders xenophobia war was inevitable and I doubt very much could have been done to avoid it.

True. One of the Interviews on the DS9 DVDs mentions how the Dominion were aware of the Federation, long before the Federation knew about them, and had plans to deal with them. So war would likely be inevitable, even if the Dominion never managed to reach the Alpha Quadrant until much later, had the Wormhole not been discovered.

 

[blackzoid]

But did they have plans for the Borg? Or for any powerful races between the Alpha and Gamma Quadrants who the Dominion would have to get through to get to the Federation? A LOT could happen in those 70 years of travel.

 

[Stephen!]

It seems that the Federation would likely come to them eventually, rather than vice-vera.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Dominion_history

In various interviews in Star Trek: The Magazine and elsewhere, the producers have confirmed that the Dominion had been well aware of the Federation for some time prior to their "official" first contact, and that the Founders had been laying long-term plans to deal with the perceived Federation threat. As Robert Hewitt Wolfe explains, "The Dominion knew the Federation was out there long before the wormhole was opened, and they had plans to deal with the Federation when the Federation was projected to enter their space in two hundred years, and they were building slowly towards that, that's why they sent out Odo in the first place. But then the wormhole opens up and suddenly the Federation is in their backyard today and it just throws everything into question for both the Federation and the Dominion." (The Birth of the Dominion and Beyond, DS9 Season 3 DVD, Special Features)

 

[blackzoid]

But if the Borg just arrived in the Dominions backyard and assimilated them outright? Out go all those fancy plans. End of the Dominion story. And is there no great Intersteller powers in between the Alpha and Gamma Quadrants? Nothing is set in stone.

 

[C.E. Evans]

It seems that the Federation would likely come to them eventually, rather than vice-vera.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Dominion_history

In various interviews in Star Trek: The Magazine and elsewhere, the producers have confirmed that the Dominion had been well aware of the Federation for some time prior to their "official" first contact, and that the Founders had been laying long-term plans to deal with the perceived Federation threat. As Robert Hewitt Wolfe explains, "The Dominion knew the Federation was out there long before the wormhole was opened, and they had plans to deal with the Federation when the Federation was projected to enter their space in two hundred years, and they were building slowly towards that, that's why they sent out Odo in the first place. But then the wormhole opens up and suddenly the Federation is in their backyard today and it just throws everything into question for both the Federation and the Dominion." (The Birth of the Dominion and Beyond, DS9 Season 3 DVD, Special Features)

Yeah. Years ago, I also thought that the wormhole just accelerated something that was going to happen anyway.

 

[bullethead]

The only way it could've been averted was traveling back in time to just after the baby Changelings were sent out into the galaxy and taking a Genesis Device to their homeworld. The Founders and their ideology reinforcing paranoid isolation essentially cut off any and all chance of reaching a peaceful solution to their problems until Section 31's virus forced their hand when Cardassia fell.

I don't think you've quite grasped the theme of Star Trek yet.

Oh, I get the whole Trekkian "we can all come to an understanding and forge lasting peace" thing, but in this case, messing with the timeline and committing genocide would be understandable, since the Founders not only inflicted numerous atrocities upon the denizens of the Gamma Quadrant, but never considered whether their mindset was wrong after Odo returned to the Link. Then they engaged in a campaign of subterfuge that resulted in large scale death and suffering before actually getting into a war with the Alpha Quadrant powers, partially genociding the Cardassians, and deciding that maybe Solids aren't that bad when Odo cures the female Changeling.

This is one of those cases where the Trek idealism thing just plain doesn't work and everyone would've been better off if Starfleet/the Federation was a bit more ruthless. In the words of Dr. Mordin Solus: “Lots of ways to help people. Sometimes heal patients; sometimes execute dangerous people. Either way helps.”

 

[Stephen!]

everyone would've been better off if Starfleet/the Federation was a bit more ruthless.

A more drastic solution, albeit mass-murder, would be to wait until the Dominion decided to withdraw their forces to Cardassia, thus putting all their eggs in one basket, then detonate a trilithium device in the sun. Boom! Bye-bye Dominion.

 

[bullethead]

everyone would've been better off if Starfleet/the Federation was a bit more ruthless.

A more drastic solution, albeit mass-murder, would be to wait until the Dominion decided to withdraw their forces to Cardassia, thus putting all their eggs in one basket, then detonate a trilithium device in the sun. Boom! Bye-bye Dominion.

That wouldn't have really done anything, since the Dominion's real military/industrial complex was still back in the Gamma Quadrant. Blowing up Cardassia's sun would've only killed the Cardassians and whoever was too slow to get to warp before the shockwave hit.

 

[blackzoid]

What is it with Trek fans and wanting the Federation to commit genocide? Did ye just sleep through all of the original series, the movies, TNG,DS9,Voy and Enterprise?

Whats the problem with my solution of mining the wormhole straightaway? The Dominion is contained, no need for a war, and the Federation has 70 years to get more technically advanced. And the Federation can deactivate parts of the minefield to sneak into the Gamma Quadrant at any time. (Like the Iris on Stargate) Its the simple,obvious solution for heavens sake.

 

[BillJ]

The ONLY way to avoid war was to:
a) destroy the WH and lose Bajor as a friend

I'm not sure losing Bajor as a friend is really any type of blow for the Federation. Bajor was getting far more from the Federation in way of support than the Federation was, having to assign personnel to a back water sector and supporting Bajor's reconstruction.

 

[Tom]

Without the wormhole, it's hard to see the Dominion as threat, if they take a fleet of ships here on a 70 year journey they still have no backup and no allies and no supplies. The key to the war was Cardassia, if the Klingons did not go to war with Cardassia they would not of been desperate enough to join with the Dominion.

The Dominion ships could come through the wormhole but they needed safe harbor to build there forces even more, so they needed an ally on the AQ, also politically it gives them a reason to be in the AQ.