Could Star Trek V been saved?

[Yistaan]

FYI, in their continuing effort to make their show more like TNG, SNW retconned the Enterprise as the flagship. Yeah, it makes little sense, but there you are.

But back to TFF: Even if Starfleet thought Kirk was the most awesomest captain ever and only he could accomplish the mission, it still made no sense to send him out in the Enterprise-A when a perfectly good ship (the Excelsior) was sitting right next to the Enterprise in Spacedock.

To be fair, I think only M'Benga actually says it and the show portrayed him as having tons of issues, to put it mildly, so maybe there's wiggle room here...

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

Someday the term flagship will be used correctly in Star Trek.

 

[SantaTom]

Someday the term flagship will be used correctly in Star Trek.

In fairness, they are using the term the way most companies use it today in real life.

 

[Maurice]

Reportedly, Bob Justman hated recurring off-ship characters and scotched the return of Kor for later episodes because in the vastness of space, meeting the same person stretched plausibility. I'm with Bob. Khan made sense as a one-off for a movie follow up, but that's it.

He did. And Fontana hated "small galaxy syndrome", as per this 1967-06-30 Fontana-penned memo about Sturgeon's "He Walked Among Us":

Scene 31. It is a small galaxy, populated by not more than 50 people. I know this because wherever we go, Kirk and Spock always recognize everybody they meet. If, indeed, they are to recognize Theodore Bayne, we must know why. If we do it this way, we should establish at this point that Bayne, a skilled surgeon, is still quite a bit of a visionary, and something of a crackpot who is know for his wild theories or whatever you will have.

 

[Adventerprise]

Can you repost this on my thread here? (I'd do it but I was the last poster on the thread over a month ago.)

The curse(?) of small universe syndrome

"Small universe syndrome" has been discussed before many times, but what are the benefits/reasons and the drawbacks for doing so? Positives: * It gives an episode personal stakes which complicate the issue - having to choose between someone you know/like and what's right, needing to succeed so...

www.trekbbs.com

 

[ananta]

I truly wish we had producers and writers of the calibre and common sense of Justman and Fontana these days. Good heavens knows what they’d think of not just SNW but the cringe-fest that was Picard season three.

 

[Dukhat]

Small Universe Syndrome has been a staple of Trek since the TOS movies. Khan meets Chekov again? Really?

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

Small Universe Syndrome has been a staple of Trek since the TOS movies. Khan meets Chekov again? Really?

Spock's parents.

Kirk's exs.

Spock's ex.

McCoy's ex.

Books could be even worse.

 

[Cap'n Claus]

Small Universe Syndrome has been a staple of Trek since the TOS movies. Khan meets Chekov again? Really?

I think it works as a one-off because that makes it a coincidence. And it helps with the audience, especially back then, to have someone who knew Khan and could fill people in. Even though the person they picked wasn't there, which moots the point.

Spock's parents.

Made sense in context of the movies. Assuming the Vulcan only has one Federation Ambassador, or a go-to, Sarek works.

Kirk's exs.

Once in a fantasy in "Shore Leave" is fine, and once as a story point works, after that, it's stretching it. He had, I think, three live ex's show up in the series and one in the movies. But if we stuck to realism, we'd never have had Bibi Besch and that would have been a genuine shame.

Spock's ex.

Made sense in context of the episode - Spock went back home to see her.

McCoy's ex.

Never saw her. Never mentioned either. In fact, if you go by only the aired live action episodes, you'd never know McCoy was ever married or had a kid. The first mention of a daughter at all was in TAS "The Survivor." Unless you mean the tie-in media but I'm assuming you're not because:

Books could be even worse.

 

[Santa Kang]

I think it works as a one-off because that makes it a coincidence. And it helps with the audience, especially back then, to have someone who knew Khan and could fill people in. Even though the person they picked wasn't there, which moots the point.

Made sense in context of the movies. Assuming the Vulcan only has one Federation Ambassador, or a go-to, Sarek works.

Once in a fantasy in "Shore Leave" is fine, and once as a story point works, after that, it's stretching it. He had, I think, three live ex's show up in the series and one in the movies. But if we stuck to realism, we'd never have had Bibi Besch and that would have been a genuine shame.

Made sense in context of the episode - Spock went back home to see her.

Never saw her. Never mentioned either. In fact, if you go by only the aired live action episodes, you'd never know McCoy was ever married or had a kid. The first mention of a daughter at all was in TAS "The Survivor." Unless you mean the tie-in media but I'm assuming you're not because:

Not sure "makes sense in the context of the episode" is quite the out you think it is.

Our heroes are consistently running in to exes, relatives, mentors and others in the oddest places.

 

[Adventerprise]

Well, you either get an expository conversation where we learn of a pre-existing relationship, or a montage showing a developing one over time, or a forever-love-at-first-sight-until-something-happens-to-end-it story.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

Once in a fantasy in "Shore Leave" is fine, and once as a story point works, after that, it's stretching it. He had, I think, three live ex's show up in the series and one in the movies. But if we stuck to realism, we'd never have had Bibi Besch and that would have been a genuine shame.

Areel Shaw.

Ruth.

Carol Marcus.

Never saw her. Never mentioned either. In fact, if you go by only the aired live action episodes, you'd never know McCoy was ever married or had a kid. The first mention of a daughter at all was in TAS "The Survivor." Unless you mean the tie-in media but I'm assuming you're not because:

I guess my terminology was poor but Nancy Crater was an ex crush at least.

Made sense in context of the episode - Spock went back home to see her.

Again, my bad on poor terminology. Someone Spock knew and had a crush on him.

Made sense in context of the movies. Assuming the Vulcan only has one Federation Ambassador, or a go-to, Sarek works.

Was referring to Journey to Babel. Again, my bad for being brief and glib.

 

[Santa Kang]

Areel Shaw.

Ruth.

Carol Marcus

Dr. Janet Wallace

Dr. Janice Lester

 

[Cap'n Claus]

Not sure "makes sense in the context of the episode" is quite the out you think it is.

Pretty sure I did. Where I got jumbled was Spock and T'Pring, who wasn't actually an ex. But meeting her was still justified because the entire story was about him going home to meet her.

I guess my terminology was poor but Nancy Crater was an ex crush at least.

No worries, I'll meet you halfway as I totally forgot her, I thought you meant McCoy's ex-wife.

Again, my bad on poor terminology. Someone Spock knew and had a crush on him.

This is where I think I lost @Santa Kang

Again, meeting you halfway. This Side of Paradise slipped my mind. I don't even know of Leila was anything at all to Spock legitimately, but they did know each other before. It counts.

Was referring to Journey to Babel. Again, my bad for being brief and glib.

Even so, if Sarek was the Vulcan ambassador to the Federation, we already knew Spock's dad had an Ambassador position. They specifically went to Vulcan to pick up the Ambassador. The odds are pretty good that Sarek would be the guy. Nobody in the family seemed even slightly surprised at the situation.

Our heroes are consistently running in to exes, relatives, mentors and others in the oddest places.

I agreed with you in regards to Kirk and his ex's. Running into people within the same organization like starfleet is much more easily explained away than running into an ex or the same Klingon. Kirk and Ron Tracey or Matt Decker could be in same quadrant or region. Kor is from a different government altogether. The odds of Kirk and Kor running into each other more than once is a push. And it's not like Kirk ran into Ron Tracey a few times, Decker two times and whatnot. The only returnee was Harry Mudd and it was a comedy so I guess who cares?

A character running into someone we never met before isn't Small Universe Syndrome. Running in to the same people repeatedly, or being related to a bunch of already introduced characters is. Like "hey another member of the Soong family!"