Could She Still Be Alive? *Potential Spoiler*

[Admiral_Sisko]

Rough Beasts of Empire clearly depicts what is apparently Empress Donatra's death, as her body is discovered inside a holding cell by Spock, the cell's floor awash in green blood, and a broken data tablet nearby. As Donatra had been throwing the data tablet against the cell walls earlier, it's implied that she managed to successfully break the device in half, using a jagged edge to slit her wrists and neck.

Earlier in the novel, Sisko was noticeably concerned for her well-being following his meeting with her, as he remarked to himself that she seemed as though she would throw herself off the balcony adjacent to her throne-room-in-exile.

Aside from the fact that Dontra managed to encounter two of my favorite characters in the span of a few pages, I find the entire sequence of events surrounding her suicide intriguing, because it leaves the door open for a possible return in later novels. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that the body Spock discovered was a clone, placed inside the cell by an as yet unknown means. We have seen numerous instances where characters appeared to die, only to resurface in later novels or episodes. Spock himself was dead, only to be revived by the combination of the Genesis effect and the fal-tor-pan.

Romulans have no katra that I'm aware of, but there's no reason to believe that we've seen the last of such an interesting- and attractive- character, as she was on the verge of becoming one of the most sympathetic characters in the Romulan political landscape before her apparent death. With several years remaining before the destruction of Romulus (if the novels follow the Abrams timeline), there's plenty of time to flesh out the Romulan people even more than has already been done.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Aside from the fact that Dontra managed to encounter two of my favorite characters in the span of a few pages, I find the entire sequence of events surrounding her suicide intriguing, because it leaves the door open for a possible return in later novels.

Actually, no. After having established in several scenes that she had abundant reason for despair, even suicidal despair, Donatra is shown as being dead as a result of what can plausibly be described as a successful suicide attempt.

Romulans have no katra that I'm aware of

They may have no tradition of said--the Remans are more likely, inasmuch as they're the keepers of Vulcan psionic gifts--but the Romulans would have the same biological potential as their fellow Vulcans back in the Federation.

[T]here's no reason to believe that we've seen the last of such an interesting- and attractive- character, as she was on the verge of becoming one of the most sympathetic characters in the Romulan political landscape before her apparent death.

"Most sympathetic", sure, although Donatra's strategy until the advent of the Typhon Pact involved starving the population of the rump RSE until they revolted and accepted her rule. Even if her high-stakes strategy of triggering a revolt had worked--a problem, that; absent the Typhon Pact Tal'Aura might well have decided to risk open civil war with the IRS--would the revolt have accepted her leadership? And what might have happened?

I don't think there's any more reason to expect the return of Donatra from the dead than there is of any of the other non-major characters killed in the course of the novels. (In the case of Spock, resurrection was unlikely; for Janeway, it literally took a deus ex machina, two, in fact.) Her death as a result of suicide is eminently plausible and doesn't need to be explained away. Perhaps sadly, I haven't seen much interest in her return, either.

Leaving AU Donatras aside, one way the character may reappear is through the circumstances of her death. Maybe she was killed by someone. Inasmuch as the other major Romulan political figures active in her lifetime--Tal'Aura, Tomalak, Rehaek--have been permanently removed from Romulan life (if not life altogether), I'm not sure what consequences that would have.

 

[Markonian]

Donatra fails to break the PADD. She tries but the device is to well-built. That implies she was murdered by the Tzenkethi, who disguised it as suicide.

They killed Tal'Aura, too, to ensure the two former leaders wouldn't stand in the way of Kamemor.

 

[Christopher]

(In the case of Spock, resurrection was unlikely; for Janeway, it literally took a deus ex machina, two, in fact.)

Except that the individuals in question weren't literally gods, and they didn't emerge from a machine.

Donatra fails to break the PADD. She tries but the device is to well-built. That implies she was murdered by the Tzenkethi, who disguised it as suicide.

They killed Tal'Aura, too, to ensure the two former leaders wouldn't stand in the way of Kamemor.

Yes, I believe that was what happened. And surely the Tzenkethi would make sure she was dead, whereas an actual suicide attempt could be botched.

 

[21Spike65]

I'm not sure that quite makes sense either. When Alizome Fel-A delivers her final report to the Autarch, she says that, "as [the Autarch] suggested might happen...Donatra was eliminated without my assistance." [page 383]

I don't see any reason why she would lie to the Autarch while admitting the murders of Tal'Aura and Kamemor's nephew. So either Donatra found a way to break the PADD and commit suicide, or someone else was responsible, though I don't know who. Tal'Aura could have just had her executed, so there'd be no reason to fake her suicide, and I'm not sure who else would want her dead...

 

[Christopher]

^Okay, I'd forgotten that part.

 

[Darth Duck]

I now just assume everyone is alive. They'll all be back.

 

[JD]

I thought it was pretty clear in the book that she was dead, and to be honest I don't really see where her return would be necessary at this point.

 

[Admiral_Sisko]

I thought it was pretty clear in the book that she was dead, and to be honest I don't really see where her return would be necessary at this point.

It wouldn't be necessary, but it would be fun.

I'm still hoping to meet her Mirror Universe counterpart. The way may be over, but with the Dominion's discovery of the wormhole, there's no reason to think there's any shortage of potential storylines for the MU going forward.

 

[JD]

^ I could see that being interesting.

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

Sweetie, Donatra is still alive. She's right *here*. (Taps chest.) Donatra will always be alive in your heart.

 

[Sci]

I thought it was pretty clear in the book that she was dead, and to be honest I don't really see where her return would be necessary at this point.

It wouldn't be necessary, but it would be fun.

I'm still hoping to meet her Mirror Universe counterpart. The way may be over, but with the Dominion's discovery of the wormhole, there's no reason to think there's any shortage of potential storylines for the MU going forward.

I agree that there are MU stories that they could keep doing, but post-Rise, I don't see the point.

Spoiler

The key thing about the Mirror Universe was always the way Earth and Federation history diverged -- instead of a democratic Earth and Federation, we see a Terran Empire, post-Empire slavery, and then a rebellion. But now that the Federation has, in essence, a counterpart in the Galactic Commonwealth, I don't really see what's left to make an MU story meaningfully different. The Commonwealth and the Federation are cut from the same clothe now; the hook is gone.

 

[E-DUB]

As an aside, I personally think that the whole Romulan breakaway state business was wrapped up too early. It would have been interesting to see two groups of Romulans, one embroiled in the Typhon pact, the other working with, and becoming closer to, the Federation. Sorta like East and West Germany in the real world.

 

[Admiral_Sisko]

I agree that there are MU stories that they could keep doing, but post-Rise, I don't see the point.

Spoiler

The key thing about the Mirror Universe was always the way Earth and Federation history diverged -- instead of a democratic Earth and Federation, we see a Terran Empire, post-Empire slavery, and then a rebellion. But now that the Federation has, in essence, a counterpart in the Galactic Commonwealth, I don't really see what's left to make an MU story meaningfully different. The Commonwealth and the Federation are cut from the same clothe now; the hook is gone.

I'd be interested to see how the Commonwealth deals with its Alpha Quadrant peers, now that it's established a footing comparable to that of the Federation. And with the Dominion's discovery of the wormhole, it's likely that the Commonwealth- as well as other Alpha Quadrant powers- will find itself threatened again in the near future.

 

[Admiral_Sisko]

As an aside, I personally think that the whole Romulan breakaway state business was wrapped up too early. It would have been interesting to see two groups of Romulans, one embroiled in the Typhon pact, the other working with, and becoming closer to, the Federation. Sorta like East and West Germany in the real world.

I like this idea, as it also harkens back to Leonard Nimoy and Nicholas Meyer's idea about the "Berlin Wall coming down in space," as an analogy for the improved relations between the Federation and the Klingon Empire. It seems logical that a similar development would lead to peace between the Federation and the Romulans, or at least a portion of their government.

It will be interesting to see how the novels deal with Romulus once they reach 2387. Will we see the Federation attempt to aid the Romulans as they did the Klingons a century before? Who will serve as their olive branch this time?

Both Picard and Sisko have had experience with the Romulans, as has Riker. Maybe Worf will have been offered a command by that time, and he will- much as Kirk was asked to broker peace with the Klingons- be asked to approach the Romulans in a similar manner, perhaps at Picard or Sisko's urging.

The similarities between the two scenarios are striking. Kirk's son was murdered by Klingons. Worf's parents were murdered by Romulans: Worf was raised by human parents, in part because of the peace between the Klingons and the Federation that Kirk helped to establish. Were a similar peace possible with the Romulans, it would finally unite the Alpha Quadrant in the way Gene Roddenberry intended.

 

[R. Star]

Why not? Death in Trek really seems to be more of a minor inconvenience.

 

[R. Star]

As an aside, I personally think that the whole Romulan breakaway state business was wrapped up too early. It would have been interesting to see two groups of Romulans, one embroiled in the Typhon pact, the other working with, and becoming closer to, the Federation. Sorta like East and West Germany in the real world.

We basically had that in form of the Imperial Romulan State. Donatra was cozying up to the Federation as much out of a sense of self preservation than anything else.

But the invariable reset button got pushed, presumably to make the Romulans a credible threat to the Federation once again, since all Trek fans are more familiar with them as opposed to the other Typhon powers.

 

[Sci]

As an aside, I personally think that the whole Romulan breakaway state business was wrapped up too early. It would have been interesting to see two groups of Romulans, one embroiled in the Typhon pact, the other working with, and becoming closer to, the Federation. Sorta like East and West Germany in the real world.

We basically had that in form of the Imperial Romulan State. Donatra was cozying up to the Federation as much out of a sense of self preservation than anything else.

But the invariable reset button got pushed, presumably to make the Romulans a credible threat to the Federation once again, since all Trek fans are more familiar with them as opposed to the other Typhon powers.

Except that wasn't a reset button in any meaningful sense, because it ended up with the most genuinely moderate Romulan leader we've ever seen in power -- if you read Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn, you saw that the Romulans have not just become hostile to the Federation again.

 

[rfmcdpei]

I agree that there are MU stories that they could keep doing, but post-Rise, I don't see the point.

Spoiler

The key thing about the Mirror Universe was always the way Earth and Federation history diverged -- instead of a democratic Earth and Federation, we see a Terran Empire, post-Empire slavery, and then a rebellion. But now that the Federation has, in essence, a counterpart in the Galactic Commonwealth, I don't really see what's left to make an MU story meaningfully different. The Commonwealth and the Federation are cut from the same clothe now; the hook is gone.

I'd be interested to see how the Commonwealth deals with its Alpha Quadrant peers, now that it's established a footing comparable to that of the Federation. And with the Dominion's discovery of the wormhole, it's likely that the Commonwealth- as well as other Alpha Quadrant powers- will find itself threatened again in the near future.

It is worth noting that the Commonwealth has a close alliance with the restored Romulan Star Empire--a mutual-defense pact, at the very least. It's not impossible to imagine that the revived Romulan state might not undergo some sort of process of liberalization akin to what its non-MU did following Nemesis and Kamemor's ascension.

We basically had that in form of the Imperial Romulan State. Donatra was cozying up to the Federation as much out of a sense of self preservation than anything else.

But the invariable reset button got pushed, presumably to make the Romulans a credible threat to the Federation once again, since all Trek fans are more familiar with them as opposed to the other Typhon powers.

That may have played a role, but there's serious reason to doubt that a division of the Romulan Empire would plausibly have been stable and not ended in war.

Of the three countries divided by the Cold War--Germany, Korea, and Vietnam--two countries saw extended bloody civil wars complicated by intervention of superpowers on both sides, Germany only remaining peaceful partly because of the extreme devastation of the Second World War but mostly because of the thousands of nuclear weapons stockpiled in central Europe. (One joke by the 1980s was that German villages were ten kilotons apart.)

Arguably things would be even worse in the case of a divided Romulan civilization. Germany, Korea, and Vietnam were all weak polities already mostly occupied--or at least dependent upon--the two blocs of the Cold War. No one was occupying the Romulans, who remained a mostly-intact superpower. Neither the Khitomer Accords nor the Typhon Pact could afford to let their allied Romulan state fall under the sway of the other--control of Romulan civilization might plausibly determine the future of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. And both Romulan states were actively preparing to settle the dispute between them and trying to cultivate aid from their allies.

 

[R. Star]

As an aside, I personally think that the whole Romulan breakaway state business was wrapped up too early. It would have been interesting to see two groups of Romulans, one embroiled in the Typhon pact, the other working with, and becoming closer to, the Federation. Sorta like East and West Germany in the real world.

We basically had that in form of the Imperial Romulan State. Donatra was cozying up to the Federation as much out of a sense of self preservation than anything else.

But the invariable reset button got pushed, presumably to make the Romulans a credible threat to the Federation once again, since all Trek fans are more familiar with them as opposed to the other Typhon powers.

Except that wasn't a reset button in any meaningful sense, because it ended up with the most genuinely moderate Romulan leader we've ever seen in power -- if you read Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn, you saw that the Romulans have not just become hostile to the Federation again.

No, I haven't. Rough Beasts of the Empire was the last TP novel I read. So if you're saying the moderates prevailed, what was the literary purpose of Donatara's death and for that matter the entire IRS story arc again? It did get hand waved away rather conveniently.