Could minor changes to the premise make the show better?

[Anwar]

I've been over this in the past, and I've come to the conclusion that the premise could have been altered somewhat while maintaining the core of the show.

Tell me what you think, and share your own views:

- Make Voyager a clearly tougher, larger ship. Somewhat more akin to a Heavy Cruiser than a scout vessel.

- Keep the "need to re-supply" bit, but make it clear that these supplies do not include torpedoes and shuttles. These, the ship can make on its own.

- Make them TRULY lost, no map back to the Alpha Quadrant. At least not for the first season or so.

- Have the Caretaker also be holding groups of Klingons/Cardassians/Romulans/Ferengi, and at the end of Caretaker these guys all escape on their own vessels when the Caretaker dies and the Array is destroyed. That way, a bit more of home has been brought with Voyager that opens the path to recurring characters/villains who can be featured all the way to the end.

Also, this makes it easier to introduce new aliens because you can tell stories of them intertwined with older better-established Trek aliens. It's how DS9 got the Dominion to work: by telling Dominion stories that were intertwined with Cardassian/Romulan/Klingon/Ferengi stories.

 

[Shatnertage]

I like the last idea best.

I say this just about every time this comes up, but I would have told more stories by flashback--seeing them in action in the Alpha Quadrant would deepen our understanding of what the crew is grappling with in the Delta Quadrant.

I'd also nix the holodecks.

 

[Anwar]

Yes, better establishing how things were before they were stranded would've made things much better.

As for holodecks, look TOS got away with "Western World", "Roman World", "Identical to 60s Earth World". Would you rather have those?

 

[Shatnertage]

Probably not. I'm not a big fan of those scenarios, except as comedy episodes, anyway.

I definitely think we could have done without most of the holodeck episodes, even though there are a few genuinely good ones ("The Killing Game" is at the top of the list).

 

[Guy Gardener]

As for holodecks, look TOS got away with "Western World", "Roman World", "Identical to 60s Earth World". Would you rather have those?

Well to be fair, none of that actually happened.

Kirk was usually quite hammered when he was writing his logs if not when he was saving the universe, that he never quite saw what every one else saw and he remembered everything just a little different to the one or two members of his crew that practised sobriety.

 

[Lynx]

I disagree with the thought of bringing in several Alpha Quadrant species. Voyager was supposed to be a lone ship lost in the Delta Quadrant.

Otherwise I see some good points in the original post.

 

[JiNX-01]

I agree that some changes could have made the show more interesting:
1. I would have liked to see Tuvok as a genuine member of the Maquis and he and Torres are the only ones who chose to join the crew. Tuvok replaces the security chief who was killed in an attack by the Kazon (which IMO, were just Klingons with really bad hair and attitudes). Torres demonstrates a knack for engineering and is given the job of chief engineer over the SF assistant chief engineer after the chief engineer dies in an accident.
2. Maquis leader Chakotay would have been a lot more interesting if he had been an adversary for Janeway instead of a toady. He could have undermined her authority among the Maquis members, and questioned decisions and orders (sometimes rightly) in the presence of crew members.
Janeway, being an upstanding SF officer, would feel as responsible for getting the Maquis back home as she did her own crew.
3. Make it harder for the crew to find food suitable and/or palatable to the nutritional needs of residents of the Alpha Quadrant.
4. I'm OK with the holodecks being on the ship and accessible, but I preferred it when they had to ration their use.
5. Neelix: I think I'd like him better if he was a smuggler who offers his services as a guide because he's wanted in several systems and Voyager is the perfect place to hide.

 

[Dukhat]

As for holodecks, look TOS got away with "Western World", "Roman World", "Identical to 60s Earth World". Would you rather have those?

I think what he means is that it's hard to take seriously the premise that they are stranded with no supplies, no refueling stations, etc. and at the same time have energy to waste running holodeck programs.

There was never a single instance AFAIK that the crew of Voyager ever suffered a single hardship by being lost without supplies or power.

I know that coming up with ideas years after the fact that would have made Voyager a better, more realistic show is a futile gesture (the show after all is done and over with), but I'll give it a shot anyway

1. The original concept was that the ship was a large old battlecruiser left over from the Cardassian wars, and that's what they should have kept it. Old and worn out, but still a formidable vessel in a fight. (remind you of anything?) No holodecks, no brand-new Starfleet tech, but at the same time puh-lenty of space for all those shuttles and torpedoes.

2. If they wanted a native Delta Quadrant character to be their guide to this unknown part of space, then he should probably, you know, actually be a guide, and not a freeloader for himself and his girlfriend, and who did extremely little guiding at all.

3. Have enemies that aren't anything more than Klingon rip-offs. IMHO, the Vidiians were the best enemies on that show.

4. Actually run out of stuff, and actually have a hardship once in awhile.

5. Get away from the whole "Starfleet crew" thing. (The whole point of this show was to be different from TNG, right?)

6. Have some people that we actually care about get killed (although there was a bit of this in early Voyager).

7. Have the ship look shittier and more worn out (or parts replaced with alien tech) with each season.

8. Get rid of the whole "looking for a way back to Earth" shtick. We all know that they were going to get back to Earth once the show ended, and not any time before. So why make the audience think "this time's going to be it" when we all know it's not?

9. Have more of a revolving cast of crewmembers. When people die, they need to be replaced. So the fuck what if the person you want to kill off just won the Sexiest Guy in the Universe contest in some magazine? If he's giving you problems, kick him the hell out and hire someone even sexier.

10. God forbid, have the crewmembers have tons of sex with each other. That's what I'd be doing if I was stranded on a ship with no way home.

 

[milo bloom]

I've been over this in the past, and I've come to the conclusion that the premise could have been altered somewhat while maintaining the core of the show.

Tell me what you think, and share your own views:

- Make Voyager a clearly tougher, larger ship. Somewhat more akin to a Heavy Cruiser than a scout vessel.

Eh, I think it works better as a smaller, though still pretty scrappy interceptor . You've automatically got the underdog theme going.

- Keep the "need to re-supply" bit, but make it clear that these supplies do not include torpedoes and shuttles. These, the ship can make on its own.

Not getting this one, do you mean keep better track of shuttles and torpedoes? I certainly agree with that.

- Make them TRULY lost, no map back to the Alpha Quadrant. At least not for the first season or so.

Eh, I like the idea of them knowing exactly where they are, but knowing it will take nearly 70 years to get home better. Might have worked for a few episodes until they got their bearings but no longer than that.

- Have the Caretaker also be holding groups of Klingons/Cardassians/Romulans/Ferengi, and at the end of Caretaker these guys all escape on their own vessels when the Caretaker dies and the Array is destroyed. That way, a bit more of home has been brought with Voyager that opens the path to recurring characters/villains who can be featured all the way to the end.

Also, this makes it easier to introduce new aliens because you can tell stories of them intertwined with older better-established Trek aliens. It's how DS9 got the Dominion to work: by telling Dominion stories that were intertwined with Cardassian/Romulan/Klingon/Ferengi stories.

Excellent idea. Would allow for easier additions to the crew (like Seven) without straining credulity.

I like the last idea best.

I say this just about every time this comes up, but I would have told more stories by flashback--seeing them in action in the Alpha Quadrant would deepen our understanding of what the crew is grappling with in the Delta Quadrant.

Wow, I've been considering ways Voyager could have been improved ever since it first aired, and I can't believe I never considered this. It wouldn't have been that hard to do, there were all the TNG and DS9 sets they could have reused (not to mention the VOY sets themselves for crew serving on other Intrepid class ships. )

I'd also nix the holodecks.

Well duh

 

[Dukhat]

As for holodecks, look TOS got away with "Western World", "Roman World", "Identical to 60s Earth World". Would you rather have those?

I think what he means is that it's hard to take seriously the premise that they are stranded with no supplies, no refueling stations, etc. and at the same time have energy to waste running holodeck programs.

There was never a single instance AFAIK that the crew of Voyager ever suffered a single hardship by being lost without supplies or power.

I know that coming up with ideas years after the fact that would have made Voyager a better, more realistic show is a futile gesture (the show after all is done and over with), but I'll give it a shot anyway

1. The original concept was that the ship was a large old battlecruiser left over from the Cardassian wars, and that's what they should have kept it. Old and worn out, but still a formidable vessel in a fight. (remind you of anything?) No holodecks, no brand-new Starfleet tech, but yet puh-lenty of room for all those shuttles and torpedoes.

2. If they wanted a native Delta Quadrant character to be their guide to this unknown part of space, then he should probably, you know, actually be a guide, and not a freeloader for himself and his girlfriend, and who did extremely little guiding at all.

3. Have enemies that aren't anything more than Klingon rip-offs. IMHO, the Vidiians were the best villains in that show.

4. Actually run out of stuff, and actually have a hardship once in awhile.

5. Get away from the whole "Starfleet crew" thing. (The whole point of this show was to be different from TNG, right?)

6. Have some people that we actually care about get killed (although there was a bit of this in early Voyager).

7. Have the ship look shittier and more worn out (or parts replaced with alien tech) with each season.

8. Get rid of the whole "looking for a way back to Earth" shtick. We all know that they were going to get back to Earth once the show ended, and not any time before. So why make the audience think "this time's going to be it" when we all know it's not?

9. Have more of a revolving cast of crewmembers. When people die, they need to be replaced. So the fuck what if the person you want to kill off just won the Sexiest Guy in the Universe contest in some magazine? If he's giving you problems, kick him the hell out and hire someone even sexier.

10. God forbid, have the crewmembers have tons of sex with each other. That's what I'd be doing if I was stranded on a ship with no way home.

 

[Jetfire]

Nothing wrong with the premise...it was all boring writing and execution which got a little better S4-S7.

 

[Shatnertage]

As far as the holodecks go, I just don't believe that people who are literally going where no (hu)man has gone before would need to blow off steam in that way. The holodeck in general hasn't added much to Trek for me--it seems like it's one of those ideas that GR thought would be really cool, but no one looked at the bigger picture: why exactly would Starfleeters be using these things?

And yeah, in Voyager there should have been a little more of a sense of limited resources. For example, it would have been nice if they'd found or traded for the Delta Flyer instead of making it from scratch, and naturally there are all those shuttles and torpedoes.

 

[Anwar]

But that's what I mean, WHY can't a Fleet starship already have equipment to make their own torpedoes and shuttles which are necessary equipment? It makes sense to have trading for engineering supplies and food, but they should be fully capable of making their own torpedoes and shuttlecraft.

Maybe they need to trade for equipment to make them into battle-vehicles, add armor/upgrade weaponry.

Hell, personally the show might've worked out better if Janeway and maybe 1-2 other people were the only Fleeters taken to the Caretaker's Array instead of a Starfleet ship, and when they escape the crew is mostly made up of Delta Quadrant natives on an alien starship whom Janeway and co are now the crew of.

That would offer MUCH better crew conflict and connection to the Delta Quadrant than if it were just Fleeters and Maquis.

 

[Dukhat]

But that's what I mean, WHY can't a Fleet starship already have equipment to make their own torpedoes and shuttles which are necessary equipment? It makes sense to have trading for engineering supplies and food, but they should be fully capable of making their own torpedoes and shuttlecraft.

But even so, their resources can't be unlimited. That would just be too unrealistic. (although it seems that was exactly how it was in that show)

Hell, personally the show might've worked out better if Janeway and maybe 1-2 other people were the only Fleeters taken to the Caretaker's Array instead of a Starfleet ship, and when they escape the crew is mostly made up of Delta Quadrant natives on an alien starship whom Janeway and co are now the crew of.

That would offer MUCH better crew conflict and connection to the Delta Quadrant than if it were just Fleeters and Maquis.

But you've basically just described Deep Space Nine, only on a ship instead of a station. (Not that I don't like your idea, but that's what it sounds like to me)

 

[Anwar]

I'm saying that in cases of Engineering-related things like torpedoes and Shuttle parts they should already have some kind of industrial replicator tech onboard to deal with that and as long as they had a way of recharging the replicator's power it wouldn't be a big issues.

Other, non-engineering related things would be a bigger issue and thus would require trading.

I mean, did NuBSG ever explain how they replenished their ammunition or nuclear missiles, or did most of their "low on supplies" stories relate to food and medicine?

For a show like Voyager, I'd say DS9's idea of having the Fleeters be the minority was the better way to go.

 

[Dukhat]

I mean, did NuBSG ever explain how they replenished their ammunition or nuclear missiles

Yes. They raided Ragnar Station in the very first episode.

 

[apollo1984]

On the torpedoes issue it would have made sense they could make their own if Janeway had mot stated in the first episode "We only have x torpedoes onboard and no way of replacing them"

The fact that they could make the Delta Flyer goes someway to explaining the everending shuttles they have, but then the question would be if that was the case why was Janeway so reluctant to make changes in design plans if they were rebuilding ships anyway although she did make it sound like they did not have the resources to make ships.

 

[Anwar]

I mean, did NuBSG ever explain how they replenished their ammunition or nuclear missiles

Yes. They raided Ragnar Station in the very first episode.

And that was supposed to last them? One Supply Raid?

And Janeway's quote about torpedoes is what I mean. WHY can't they replenish them? If they had said "We have enough replicator power for the engineers to make more torpedoes and shuttle parts, but not enough for all other supplies." people would be much more forgiving.

 

[RyuRoots]

I mean, did NuBSG ever explain how they replenished their ammunition or nuclear missiles

Yes. They raided Ragnar Station in the very first episode.

And that was supposed to last them? One Supply Raid?

And Janeway's quote about torpedoes is what I mean. WHY can't they replenish them? If they had said "We have enough replicator power for the engineers to make more torpedoes and shuttle parts, but not enough for all other supplies." people would be much more forgiving.

Yes, actually. Even if they had come up with a way to make more AFTER the show had started (which could've been a potentially interesting episode), it still would've worked as there'd be an explanation.

 

[Anwar]

So if Voyager ran into a Kazon supply depot and took all the contents, folks wouldn't be complaining about where they got their weapon stores from for the entire 7 seasons?