Could Discovery/Pike lead to a return to Primeverse movies?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Khan 2.0, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Commodore Commodore

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    Just speculation but with news that a possible merge will happen to bring all Trek under one roof again
    https://trekmovie.com/2019/04/26/reports-cbs-and-viacom-moving-towards-merger-talks-again/
    maybe its not impossible to think of how Treks next movie could incorporate the current/popular Disco versions of Pike, Spock and the Enterprise as a way to 'reboot' the movie series again - in a similar way to all the other film series that have had multiple reboots not that long after the previous versions (Spiderman, Batman, Superman, Bond etc) esp since the JJ movies are now seemingly done (dont think theres been any news at all about ST4 since that article stated its been shelved and the directors moved on..so unless Tarantino is suddenly going to announce ST4 as his next film its not looking very hopeful), Disco is virtually JJ movie quality in terms of FX/production values and even has movie actors so its not much of a stretch for it to translate to movies (and new recast versions of Pike/Spock have sort of superseded the JJ versions – Quinto as Spock again might feel strange now?), also the Disco Enterprise has seemingly done the impossible in successfully appeasing fans with its updated but respectful reinvention (so a movie would be building on that goodwill as opposed to another reinvention ), and it would continue the TOS/TNG tradition of the tv actors going into the movies.. and of course itd mark the Trek movies return to Primeverse..

    So say if they were to do a couple of years of a Pike tv show (or maybe even not bother with a TV show at all and just carry them from Disco S2), which would lead directly into the next Trek movie (14 or 11 depending on how you regard Kelvin trilogy) which could be titled like 'Star Trek: Origins' as itd be the first time we see the true Primeverse origin of TOS culminating with Kirks 1st Enterprise mission set however many months before WNMHGB (a new Kirk being a big enough deal for a Trek movie series reinvention) - so a full on prequel to TOS as ST09 was (but without the sequel/reboot element) but also like a remake of ST09 in eyes of movie goers(like Amazing Spiderman was a remake of Spiderman 2002) as it'd be the Primeverse version of that which Harve Bennet was wanting to do back in 1990, as well as being something of a Discovery movie (but no reference to any Disco events other than the familiarly of nuPike/Spock.)

    The film could chart Prime Kirks ascension to youngest captain of a starship. So we could see the Conscience of the King/Kodos stuff at the start, abit of academy/Kobiashi Maru stuff (but maybe not too much as it was done in ST09), the Farragut/cloud stuff, Carol Marcus, and the Gary Mitchell incident. Then the bulk of the film would be some adventure involving Cmdr Kirk meeting Pike and Spock and maybe a few other TOS characters along the way with Pike handing Kirk the keys to the Enterprise at the end (so itd end in a similar way to ST09 but no 25y old cadet Kirk as Captain). Basically the movie they couldve made in 2009 had they not done the alt universe thing (which is what the early rumours were). Then the 2nd movie 2-3 years later (not 4 years) would be in the final year of the 5y mission so not to tread over the holy scrolls of TOS (or even STID/STB for that matter).. then a 3rd film could be TMP/2nd 5y mission era (which was only supposed to be about 2-3 years after TOS) then bang them out every 2-3 years like TOS did possibly using the various other Trek tv shows for VI/Generations type crossovers. the 3 kelvinverse movies would be like a universe unto itself like The Dark Knight trilogy. separated and not referenced again – unless they wanted to have them interact with the Prime versions at some point in a timetravel/alt reality Days of Future Past/Endgame crossover movie (which could well be what Tarantinos Trek is going to be doing with multiple crews - and Paramount might be very eager now - like 'hey what do we have that we could go Endgame on.?')

    Cast someone about same age Kirk/Shatner was in TOS 34/35 but no need to be too famous as like ST09 youd hopefully have a couple of big names as an admiral, main villain, kodos, Capt Garrovick etc (like Hanks etc) . Peck would be Spock, Mount as Pike, Mystique as No1, then obviously you have new actors for Bones (the WNMHGB doc couldve just been a relief for Bones as he on shoreleave/injured etc), Scotty, Sulu, Uhura, maybe chekov (but no bridge role in movie 1 - and the TOS characters bar Pike/Spock maybe wouldnt feature much until the end), and there'd be likes of Finnegan, Finney, Carol Marcus, Gary Mitchell along the way.

    basically itd be a reboot of ST09 :)
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  2. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why would anyone go to a movie featuring the same actors and sets that are on Discovery? They're already paying a monthly fee to see that.

    If anything, this merger (if it happens, which I doubt) will lead to Trek telemovies on CBS-AA. Which would be very cool.
     
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  3. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Commodore Commodore

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    the idea would be to keep new Pike, Spock for the movies (not use them for a Pike tv show) and use them to relaunch the movies with a new Kirk
     
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  4. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    See, this excites me.

    A TV show starring these characters sounds great. But the notion that you migrate the Enterprise, Pike, Spock, Number One, and everyone else to the big screen adventures... I'm genuinely intrugued. It could be the refresh the movie franchise has been looking for for so long, but successive producers haven't quite managed to pull off.....
     
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  5. Malaika

    Malaika Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I hope not. I say this with love but being once again stuck in the prime verse only is boring to me. Maybe a sequel set many many years later could still do something new but I don't see potential for movies, especially when the prime timeline is on TV already.
    I'd rather use the kelvin timeline still. Even if you don't use this cast, even a spin off is instantly more interesting to me if you are allowed to show what went differently in this reality compared to the prime timeline.
    Trapping yourself into the done and over prime timeline when you have another one to use that has less continuity issues is just..dumb. Especially when you want to ostensibly be in the prime timeline but use time travel as a way to still get out of canon..

    And frankly? I thought discovery being a prequel of tos was a bad idea and the ending of the second season confirms that the creative team themselves realize it. If the merger had happened, discovery would most likely be a spin off of the kelvin timeline because fan service withstanding, it's obvious they wish their show was its own reality.

    That's why I'm unsure why people seem to think a Pike spin off is a sure thing now. They obvioustly wanted to free themselves from the constraints of the prime timeline and canon, why make a new show where they have that same issue again? (ten times more, IMO, because you have Spock there)
    Messing up with Nimoy's Spock past is a huge risk too. I already struggle seeing Nimoy's Spock as the natural evolution of Discovery Spock. Tos Spock feels like regression now, like he went backwards, had an involution, forgot his own emotional development.
    He's as au, if not more, as kelvin Spock is. They are just less honest about it because they want to have the cake and eat it too by claiming prime timeline to feel more valid (tm) (cue Frakes and Kadin comments), all the while having the freedom of kelvin trek and use it as inspiration because tos is an old thing made in the 60s in that contest and no one cares making their own show like that - unless they deliberately want to feel outdated.

    I see people putting Peck and Quinto into a competition about who is more like Nimoy's Spock but the irony is, new Spock has much more in common with kelvin Spock, both in terms of writing and the actor himself has more the appeal of Quinto than Nimoy, anyway. But some people are really convinced that just because something has a prime timeline label on it, they are automatically the same thing.
    For me, nowadays trek cannot make sense with old trek regardless and it is going to feel like a reboot or different universe anyway. Why not make it another reality in text too then? Especially when jj&Co kindly created one already?
    I dunno, this fixation with the prime timeline label seems disingenuos and pointless.

    Anyway I think it's premature to say that Quinto cannot play the character anymore just because they recast Spock in Discovery. It's two different verses. I think to the general audience, Quinto comes first and is still the new Spock (and torch bearer of the character) they know the most and expect to see in the movies. I don't honestly think discovery, and in general TV trek, does really reach the audience feature movies have. TV trek isn't a flop but it isn't Game of thrones level of popular, especially for the rest of the world that isn't America. I have friends who watched the movies but they don't even know what is Discovery.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
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  6. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Commodore Commodore

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    thats a good point that uptil Discovery the TOS series was 'protected' canon wise by the splintered Alt/Kelvin universe (which was of course a big thing at the time with ST09 not infringing on TOS.. sometimes abit easy to forget now with Discovery having totally delved into proper 'prime' TOS and all the issues that's caused lol) so yeah Disco Pike/Spock meeting Kirk in a Primeverse redo of ST09 would cause potential canon issues (again) for sure as opposed to doing another Kelverse ST4.. but then the Kelverse now has problems with underperforming Beyond, ST4 with Thor falling apart, no news at all about a 4th film other than the Tarantino thing might still happen but no on knows (maybe everyone is waiting for the merger to put everything under one roof?) .. there are sequels that 'right' the series after the last one misfired (Treks II & VI of course) but when a series has those kind of issues and time goes on/no hear anything much about a sequel it usually means a reboot/reinvention in a few years (7y for ST09, 7y for Superman/MoS, 5y for Amazing Spiderman & just 2y for MCU, 5y for Hulk, 4y for Bond/Casino Royale, and 4y until the new Batman) and if they were to reboot/reimagine Star Trek as a film series what could they do other than Kirk again? (Kirk/Spock being like the James Bond or Batman of Star Trek as opposed to making a spin off about another Trek crew which would be like spin off Bond films centred on Moneypenny, Blofeld, or just some other agent etc - the comicbook genre of course are doing just that with Joker, Harley Quinn, Venom etc but then superheroes are what everyone is tripping over to see now) - could they do TNG Begins? (either set in Kelvin or not) - but theres the Picard series now so that's unlikely. or wait like 10y and do a long belated 'legacy' sequel with the JJ cast - but then did/will the Kelverse trilogy have even that long standing appeal..

    I guess Tarantino will maybe decide the next course/direction .. if his script/story goes ahead that is... be it with the JJcrew as hinted at (with involvement from JJ Abrams) or a reboot of some sort (not necessarily anything like suggested with Disco Pike/Spock meeting Kirk movie)
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  7. The Butter Phantom

    The Butter Phantom Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I could see a moderately budgeted Pike movie happening. But I think it's better they release it as a CBS All Access / Netflix Original film, with a small theatrical run for die-hard fans, as the economics of doing that are better.
     
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  8. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It could just be me, but I get the feeling Paramount is done with the Trek movie franchise, at least for the foreseeable future.
     
  9. STR

    STR Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Nah. They're just going back to the drawing board. JJTrek is done. Now we wait for a couple of years of searching for the new producer/concept. Trek, for the most part, makes decent and reliable money.
     
  10. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'd really rather there weren't any more movies. Although I loved some of the original films, the TNG and JJ ones were pretty poor.

    I feel Trek is best suited to TV and should stay there.
     
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  11. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not quite sure how that's different from what I wrote, but ok.
     
  12. Spot261

    Spot261 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    To be honest I'd want the ensemble characters to settle into our collective consciousness first. Ethan Peck is inspirational as Spock and Anson Mount has made Pike the real captain of the 1701 for me, but beyond those two there really isn't a lot of chemistry between characters who remain one step from nameless.

    It would work far better once we had a familiar group dynamic in play to which we could all relate rather than a group of largely generic uniforms seen dealing with a universe ending catastrophe. There's a lot of potential there, but let's see some low level episodes where the end is not nigh. Episodes where we get to see the interplay develop as the crew go about their normal business of exploring planets, dealing with local crises, solving diplomatic problems, encountering alien entites which aren't bent on galactic domination and aren't saving the universe. In other words a bit more "Devil in the Dark" and a bit less, well, ever raising stakes. I want the feel of the crew as a family like we have with TOS and TNG and are starting to finally get with DSC.

    JJ Trek seems to be dead and frankly I'm not going to mourn it, it relied far too much on flashy visuals and forced chemistry which in turn relied on accepting the new cast as fitting straight into their predecessors' shoes. It didn't ring true for me, the characters felt like a bad parody of the originals rather than versions we learnt to care about over time.

    To be honest I particularly disliked Chris Pine as Kirk, he seemed to play the character as an overblown stereotype of the worst ways the original character has been misrepresented over time. For all his action scenes, torn shirts, womanising and general macho persona Kirk was actually quite a thoughtful character. He stopped, he listened, he weighed up the situation and strategised. He was a very capable man who could make the chaos work. Pines' Kirk, on the other hand, is the chaos, he frantically and almost randomly careens his way around life like a hyperactive teenager.

    Where Shatners' Kirk acknowledged and was a master of his sexuality, using it to his advantage, Pines' is a slave to his as though he were just hitting puberty, accidentally becoming captain of the flagship of starfleet and getting through as much through dumb luck and ridiculous plot contrivances as any actual ability.

    All of this was accentuated by the clumsy and almost comically contrived way younger versions of the characters were shoehorned into their old places despite being immature and unready, dumbed down and making it up as they went along. There was no thoughtful consideration, no nuance, no intelligent and capable people who truly seemed to represent the best in humanity (Uhura being the possible exception here) and could be as much scientists and diplomats as warriors and explorers. Just overexcited kids alternately having the times of their lives and personal angsty dramas.

    So, really, the upshot is I'd be glad to see a DSC movie spin off, but not yet. Not till we're comfortable and familiar enough with the characters to make it work organically.
     
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  13. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Commodore Commodore

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    interesting analysis - almost comparable to DC or Mummy rushing into a cinematic universe without 'earning' it like MCU (which as you say ST09 was somewhat guilty of)..but regarding using Disco Pike/Spock/No1.. if there was to be a new 'origin' TOS movie better to use them (even if they no do a Pike series building up the characters more) as at least familiar/worked good

    But its all just speculation .. who knows.. Paramount might even want to fire up the George Kirk ST4 again after seeing Endgames box office :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
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  14. STR

    STR Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "Done" means done. No plans for the future. I'm saying the work never stops, just shifts into a different phase.
     
  15. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ok, I probably wasn't clear. You said JJTrek is done, and that's what I meant when I said "Paramount is done with the Trek movie franchise, at least for the foreseeable future." Sorry for the confusion.
     
  16. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I wouldn't mind a Pike movie. Heck, I wouldn't mind if the TV series that people are craving for could be a movie series instead. It would bring Trek back to the big screen and give people what they want, while not overwhelming the whole TV experience.
     
  17. ISS Enterprise

    ISS Enterprise Commander Red Shirt

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    Agree 100% on Shatner's Kirk. He was an excellent leader, tactician, decent diplomat, and his intellect exceeded his shirt off Gorn fighting & sexual persona
    That Kirk was a true leader

    I like Pine as an actor, quality, IMO. JJ, Kurtzman, n crew wrote JJ Kirk very superficially n lazy. IMO, they don't get Star Trek, Kurtzman in particular, see Discovery.... Pine's arc had him much more of a leader and what a Starship Captain should be in Beyond, but ST 2009 Kirk wasn't deserving of cmd AFTER defeating Nero. A more experienced n seasoned person would be made Captain in any other universe, but I get why they did what they did
     
  18. pst

    pst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    the caliber of actors they cast as the enterprise crew in discovery is excellent. they're solid TV players, but not up and coming movie stars like the cast of star trek 2009 was.

    i'd love TV movies with these guys, but if star trek heads back to the big screen, the cast is gonna have to have a lot more cache than anson mount and rebecca romjin.
     
  19. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Pike is a good selling point to the most loyal part of the ST base, but the general public doesn't even know who that is. It would still have to be Kirk's face all over the posters. But I think we're already getting cinematic quality with what we already have, and there's no need to head back to theaters.
     
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  20. Malaika

    Malaika Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Movies are more accessible and reach a bigger and more diverse audience, IMO. You pay one ticket and go watch it with your friends, kids or significant other (or alone) and it's over. You like it, can buy the DVD and watch it at home again. It's a complete, self-contained experience that I wouldn't say it's now 'outdated' or replaced by TV or streaming services. There is something magic about watching movies at the cinema too that I wouldn't want to lose, it cannot get replaced no matter how big or technologic your home theater is.

    I don't see why trek should be out of that and become a niche thing only available to a selected audience.
    Those who watch current TV trek may forget it or not realize it, but probably most of the audience of the movies doesn't even watch Discovery&co. It doesn't exist for them.
    It's bittersweet for me that current TV trek essentially is only something that younger audiences can watch if their parents can afford to pay for a streaming service or are willing to. Don't make the mistake of assuming this is a given and most of the people get access to these things.
    Streaming TV is improving and becoming popular and accessible, but I'd be careful believing it has really became the default and main way to release content to the public.

    If streaming TV was truly 'enough' you wouldn't still have movies that make billions in few weeks. Disney and marvel wouldn't bother still making movies released the 'old fashioned way'.
     
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