Could a new Trek show done in the 90's TNG/DS9 style work today?
- Thread starter The Rock
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Unless they have a DVR...
100% back to the 90s, uh? Well, there are easier bays -I mean ways!- to rewatch these days.
No, DVRs don't work with that app. I tried.
Well, it looks like we're getting a bit of that in SNW.
Could be Ed and Gordon; it's Pike and Ortegas.
Bullshit article. And you're wrong; reading it was a waste of time.
I don't know that viewers did; some fans did. As Trek became more serialized in DS9, viewership steadily declined.
Fans had long serialized Trek in fanzine stories. There are a minority that have apparently longed to see the values and tropes of fan fiction embraced by the studio's productions, and in large part have in STD. Honestly, one show like that is more than enough.
^And the manner of the serialisation became one of the most criticised elements in modern Trek.
Yes, because serialized storytelling requires somewhat different skills. Not all material lends itself to it. The people managing the show overall have to have a clear sense, if not necessarily a plan, for where the stories are going. Not all writers are good at it, certainly not inexperienced writers. But every television writer in the business became serial storytellers in a fairly brief span of time.
Go out and find a beginner's guide to fiction writing that spends a lot of chapters examining and teaching long-form drama. I'll wait ( I don't doubt that by now there must be a few. There sure aren't many).
Some of the most popular recent serialized shows have angered and disappointed their most fervent fans by the inability of the writers to provide what they considered adequate resolutions to their story and character arcs. I'll bet anyone reading this topic can come up with a fast list of at least four examples.
The first year of STD is a textbook example of how to do it poorly.
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Well, the first year of DIS had a complete change at the top, with even the creator fired, after the first part was outlined. The new showrunners, perhaps under studio pressure, completely changed the next part. The same thing happened in the second season! Things were more stable at the top in the third season, but it was not until the fourth season that they had a satisfactory conclusion (especially if you don't count the epilogue). Picard, after a messy end to its first season, seems to have tried to regain confidence by showing its concluding moments at the start!
In all, it seems that Star Trek does not really lend itself to serialisation. Any idea why?
To do serialisation well you need exceptionally good writers and someone with a very clear vision at the top dictating where things are going and even with this you still need to deliver episodes that works within themselves. So far I’ve never seen all these conditions to come true in Star Trek.
Well, The Orville was okay for me. But it's episodic approach didn't give me the urge or feeling to watch it until the end. For me, watching The Orville for some episodes in season 1 and 2 was already enough. I don't have to collect all the episodes to enjoy the Orville. I need just some of my favorite Episodes, and that's it.
It is different to today Star Trek serialization model of show. It gives me urge to watch the next episodes ASAP. And hungry for more, because I want to see the conclusion of the story. That's why I enjoy Picard season 2 so much. Because it tickle my curiosity to and extend that I HAVE TO watch the next episode ASAP.
I thought the Orville built on past arcs and delivered some awesome twists and giant action set pieces in a way TNG never did. YMMV. To me, it seemed to be the perfect mix of episodic stories that still built an arc.
But on the other hand, the DS9 fans became the most loyal fans of any Trek show.
I prefer 1000 loyal fans to 10 000 fake fans who abandone the show as soon as something new and trendy shows up.
Not enough to make me wanna watch it again. Still boring with boring characters and a typical retro show trying to be TOS and is screwing up established Trek history.
But if Star Trek becomes one of those 2010's and 2020's doom-and-gloom dystopic shows, then it isn't Star Trek anymore, only another typical 2010's and 2020's doom-and-gloom dystpoic show. Then it should change the name to "Bore Trek".
Which is a sad symptom of how the viewers have been dumbed down in the recent decades.
Personally I like shows with a continuity and where I have to think to get the picture, not only a mess of explosions, prolonged action scenes, lenghty torture scenes and blood splattering.
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Economically, you want the 10,000 fans. That is what pays the bills and gets you the next iteration.
It's still Star Trek. Trek deals with pain and gloom and suffering. Optimism comes across as very "head in the sand" if it only plays in the light and only deals in happily ever afters, something Trek doesn't always do.
It's not boring or dystopian to explore suffering and resilience.
I'm still a fan of TOS. I'm still a fan of the TOS Movies. I'm still what I guess you'd call a casual fan of TNG, DS9, and VOY. I liked them but TOS was really the one I was hardcore about. I also just happen to be a fan of Discovery, Picard, and Prodigy in addition to those. I never abandoned what I was a fan of before or liked it any less. One doesn't overrule the other.
I don't want '90s Trek back because I was starting to get tired of it at the end of the actual '90s. If it were to come back, it would only be a matter of time before I'd become tired of it again. There are hundreds and hundreds of episodes of that version of Star Trek. No other version of Star Trek will ever catch up to it in terms of sheer volume. Not even Kurtzman's Star Trek, even though it looks like he'll sure try his hardest to match that number. It was easier for me to make the adjustment to Kurtzman Trek because I wasn't super-invested in Berman Trek to begin with. So I was just waiting for a different version of Star Trek to come along. I'll be bold enough to say I'll probably still be loyal to Kurtzman Trek after it's done.
And yeah, I'll put how much of a fan I am of Discovery up against how much of a fan a Niner is of Deep Space Nine any day. I'm as much of a fan of DSC as they are of DS9.
I also enjoyed Picard Season 1 a lot and without spoiling anything, Picard Season 2 is something I'll want to put on for the hell of it again every now and then. Not that I wouldn't with S1 but S2 has been a very fun ride. I'm enjoying it a lot.
When I have some more free time, I'll go binge Prodigy again on a whim. I'm in my early-40s, and I'm not a parent, but I still like it a lot. Not because "Oh! It's the new thing!" but because I legitimately enjoy it.
I'm not a huge fan of the Kelvin FIlms, or Lower Decks, and the jury is still out on Strange New Worlds. We'll find out about that one next month. So just because it's new doesn't automatically guarantee I'll become a fan of it.
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In my opinion, Discovery and Picard have both been failures. Instead of sticking with a tried and tested formula of classic Star Trek series, they've gone in another direction and created these drama series akin to a daytime soap opera. Tune in next week to find out what happens to our plucky heroes. I'm not a fan of these season-long arcs we see in Nu Trek for two reasons: firstly, everything in the season builds up to a finale. As a result, half the stuff in between is pointless filler which is exactly what we're seeing in Picard S2. And if the final episode is underwhelming, there's a feeling the entire build-up has been for nought.
Secondly, to have a season long arc, you need to have a good story to underpin the entire season. Again, in my opinion both Discovery and Picard have failed here as the plots for each season have been underwhelming. If the season-long story turns out to be lame (Picard S2) or the final episode is totally anticlimactic and awful (Discovery S3), the season as a whole has a been a waste.
That's the advantage of having a 90s style episodic series. You can have the occasional dud episode because it does not matter the following week and does not impact a grand final in which all loose ends need to be tied off. There's not one overarching story that must be followed each week, as if they were multiple parts to a single movie. The writers don't have to come up with an amazing story that spans the entire season (not an easy task) and instead can focus on making the best individual episodes they can.
So I for one would love to see a return to the episodic format we had in the 90s. Hopefully we'll get that in SNW.
Secondly, to have a season long arc, you need to have a good story to underpin the entire season. Again, in my opinion both Discovery and Picard have failed here as the plots for each season have been underwhelming. If the season-long story turns out to be lame (Picard S2) or the final episode is totally anticlimactic and awful (Discovery S3), the season as a whole has a been a waste.
That's the advantage of having a 90s style episodic series. You can have the occasional dud episode because it does not matter the following week and does not impact a grand final in which all loose ends need to be tied off. There's not one overarching story that must be followed each week, as if they were multiple parts to a single movie. The writers don't have to come up with an amazing story that spans the entire season (not an easy task) and instead can focus on making the best individual episodes they can.
So I for one would love to see a return to the episodic format we had in the 90s. Hopefully we'll get that in SNW.
Enterprise was cancelled in 2005, ending Star Trek on TV until 2017. Can't blame them too much for being skittish about going back to the well Berman and friends ran dry.
Although new writers, new era. I hope that means new stories and not just Orville-style 'Memberberries.
You do remember that the ole, "tried and tested formula" killed the franchise for nearly a decade. If you think they are going to attempt a resurrection by doing the same thing that killed it, I have prime property on the Moon for sale.
Besides it isn't that different from what you remember. They just removed much of the stuff that was killing it. Now it is thriving!
What killed the franchise was the exhaustion of the show runners and lack of new ideas, not the formula itself. Enterprise season 4 is considered by most a huge improvement over the previous years, but it was too late by then.
Also giving the last movie to a director that didn’t know Star Trek at all and trying to make it more generic and action oriented didn’t help.
Also giving the last movie to a director that didn’t know Star Trek at all and trying to make it more generic and action oriented didn’t help.
I guess you missed Justin Lin's Troi birthday cake? That guy was a Trekkie his whole life.
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