News Coronavirus Pandemic Information and Support Group

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by EmoBorg, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Sorry. Moderator

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    So gratifying to know that the most vacation I could ever possibly earn with my company is lower than the German average. And I think my company is actually on the generous side.

    I should mention that my company is one that actually provides paid sick days. But there are many that don't. And then they wonder why people with COVID symptoms are still showing up for work... in many cases, they don't want to have to be there, they just literally can't afford to not be there. It's a problem that should have been fixed a long time ago.
     
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  2. TrickyDickie

    TrickyDickie Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My wife and I have chosen not to get any of the vaccines. At any given time, no one knows what level their immune system is operating at. If it is already at a significant level, two doses (or for some people even one dose) of a vaccine may send the immune system into overdrive. You could draw the analogy to an electrical overload. I think that's what is happening with a significant number of the post-vaccine deaths. For those who take the vaccines and survive, some may be plagued with various autoimmune disorders down the road, from immune systems gone haywire.

    There is a lot of talk about "the benefits outweigh the risks". That's just an opinion. Tell it to the ones who have died and to their families. It should remain a carefully considered choice, and not something that is crammed down peoples' throats. Am I an anti-vaxxer? Definitely not. I had a TD vaccine just 2 years ago this month. I just don't favor these Covid-19 vaccines.

    I don't know why more serious investigation and trials are not being done with alternatives. Like this:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7833340/

    I read somewhere, early on, that inhaled Interferon B was also showing some promise in trials.

    Personally, if I were to contract the virus, I would hit it with 40mg of Claritin (rather than the usual 10mg) and add a cocktail of various herbs that have natural anti-viral properties.
     
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  3. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    i'm a journalist and not a doctor but as far as i know you need to block both h1 and h2 receptors to do any good with covid symptoms and claritin is a h1 blocker and nothing else. so that's some rather heavy lifting for your 'anti-viral herbs'.
     
  4. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Personally, I believe that all people have a right to choose the risks they take, I believe that applies even when the benefits outweigh the risks by a wide margin. In this case, the "benefits outweighing the risk" is not an opinion, but a fact based on data. Could the data change in the future? Could people be putting more effort into identifying problems? Of course, but those are just additional low probabilities that go into weighting the risks. And the probability goes down over time and as more doses are given without problems.

    To show that I appreciate your position, I'll point out that I choose not to use sun-screen even thought the data shows the benefits outweigh the risks. Why? I tan well and I don't trust that people are studying the possible harm sun-screens might to do the human body especially after activation from ultraviolet light while it is on the skin. I have no evidence that it can cause harm, but I wonder. Also, skin cancer is treatable if you are careful to check your skin and catch it in time, and I figure that I'm a human that lives on earth and the sun is the key to life. So, if the sun ends up killing me in the end, so be it.

    Your points are good, but I would ask you to provide data or evidence that a significant number of people died from the vaccine or are having other problems from it. I know of tens that have died from blood clots from the J&J, but I could not find any clear evidence of people dying from Moderna or Pfizer (which is why I decided to get one of those). How does one compare that with millions who have died of getting covid, and millions more with lingering problems from it and the statistics that show more than 10% of people have gotten covid, with that number growing? Adding to that the risk of mutations that could be more deadly, if this virus is not nipped in the bud by using vaccines.

    Sure, decide as you see fit, but if you are saying people are dying at any significant rate, or are having auto-immune disorders, provide the data/evidence. Otherwise, your comments seem anecdotal and not based on evidence, as do mine when I talk about sun-screen.

    Anyway, I say these things not for your benefit because I'm sure you understand all this and consider it in your decision. But, your words will have an impact on others and I just like to make sure that others do make this "a carefully considered choice", as you say they should. And, if you do have hard evidence of the risks, I and others would definitely like to know more about it.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
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  5. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Virginia lifted some restrictions such as maximum occupancy within a business and our statewide mask mandate.
     
  6. TrickyDickie

    TrickyDickie Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It doesn't work that way. The vaccines were developed in an attempt to address the novel virus. The mutations are variants, for which the vaccines are less effective. One or more booster shots may have even more detrimental effects on the immune system, with potentially more overloading.

    Post-vaccine deaths caused by the vaccines may not be 100% clear right now, but the possibility should at least be worthy of concern and study. The idea that each and every person who died immediately after receiving a vaccine succumbed to factors that had nothing to do with the vaccines is not a proven fact, either.

    "The benefits outweigh the risks" remains an opinion, not a fact. Consider the numbers....of people who have contracted the virus and survived.

    I know it's not a perfect analogy, but consider a first-year vehicle that is brand-new in its engineering, from the ground up. They often have a ton of problems, especially if rushed to market. I think we are seeing a somewhat similar situation with the vaccines.

    Personally, at this point in time, I will risk the virus rather than the current and potential long-term negative effects of the vaccines that exist right now. If a...."second-generation" vaccine is developed that presents less problems, I will consider that.

    I should add that I was prescribed a medication shortly after it was brought to market and I have been dealing with negative long-term side effects for several decades and I know that situation will continue for the rest of my life. That does influence my thinking. Whether for better or for worse is also a matter of opinion.

    For those who have received a vaccine and have suffered no serious negative effects in the short term, cheers. I hope nothing happens down the line and I hope it is very effective for you.
     
  7. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Isn't there two aspects to having a vaccine?

    1.>Preventing the person who has a vaccine from catching a virus and/or reducing the effects of the virus on the body?

    2.>Reducing the risk of passing the virus onto others who might not be able to have a vaccine due to say being allergic to one of the ingredients used in creating the vaccine?

    The question becomes at what point does ones right to risk their own lives by say not taking a vaccine conflict with the rights of others not to be in danger because they can't take a vaccine?
     
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  8. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I guess we have different opinions about the difference between an opinion and a fact. I could counter your statement by saying, "consider the numbers of people who have gotten the vaccine and survived, myself included. Also, I personally know many more people who have had the vaccine than I know had the virus. I don't personally know anyone who died of the vaccine and I know people who died of the virus. But, what is more relevant is the world-wide data. We have hundreds of millions of people who had the virus and hundreds of millions of people who had the vaccine. That's a lot of data to draw on and facts are based on data and evidence. Opinions are not. Of course, facts are sometimes proved wrong later and opinions are sometimes proved right later, but that's the nature of facts. They are not absolute truths. That's why I feel all people should have the right to choose, and even choose against the data leaning heavily in one direction.
     
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  9. Owain Taggart

    Owain Taggart Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This past Friday, I managed to secure my appointments. I get my first dose of Pfizer next month, with my second one in September. Feels like we've been waiting forever, but at least now I can start to see the light at the end.
     
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  10. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    why such a long pause? i get mine 6-8 and 7-19 (we call it biontech of course but it's the same stuff) and that's what biontech advises.
     
  11. Owain Taggart

    Owain Taggart Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ As been pointed out before, the reason is for supply delays and general quantity. We've encountered delay after delay. Unlike some countries, Canada doesn't have a way to domestically manufacture vaccines, and must rely on other countries. This has pushed out priorty to those countries manufacturing and vaccinating their own citizens. Instead of focusing on giving everyone their first and second doses, Canada has planned on giving everyone their first doses before starting to give anyone their seconds, otherwise it would just take too long at our rate of receiving shipments. There have been reports from those administering the vaccine that they barely have enough left before receiving another shipment. Demand is outstripping supply. There is a Canadian company doing a trial for an mNRA vaccine, but they're so far out and say it won't be likely available until next year. We're doing the best we can with what we have, and the current vaccination plan has been checked out by the manufacturers.
     
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  12. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    thx
     
  13. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Some countries such as the UK (which does produce at least one vaccine) went the route of giving as many people as it could at least 1 dose with the 2nd dose up to 12 weeks later. On the reasoning of something along the lines it is better to have more people at least partially immunity rather than fewer people fully vaccinated.
     
  14. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    that works quite well for az - biontech/pfizer not so much
     
  15. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, as someone who supports vaccines but has transportation issues getting to places (I don't drive), I was finally able to get my shot at the local pharmacy. Its the Janssen/J&J vaccine (I didn't have a choice, its what they had) so its just a single dose. Its probably the least popular of the vaccines, and I got it because its what they had available, but I'm fine with it. Its better then not getting vaccinated, and I'm protecting myself and others (emphasized for certain rather selfish vaccine opinions I've been reading online) by doing it.

    I'm going to keep wearing a mask long past even the full activation of the vaccine (which I read is 28 days for the J&J vaccine), but I still feel like a weight has been lifted from my mind. Now, to hope I don't get more then mild side effects (apparently within 6 hours is when most side effects start for this vaccine, at least from what I read).
     
  16. oberth

    oberth Commodore Commodore

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    that's probably az, you don't even use it
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  17. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Sorry. Moderator

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    A recent study seems to show that delaying the second Pfizer dose actually improves immunity for older people.

    Delaying a COVID vaccine’s second dose boosts immune response

    They've been flogging that result quite insistently here over the last couple days, what with our forced 16 week wait...
     
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  18. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, I'm feeling the effects of my shot, but I'm still glad I got it. I definitely didn't enjoy the terrible chills yesterday, I barely slept and I feel like I got hit by a truck today, but I know it will be gone in a day or two, so its just an annoyance that I'm putting up with.
     
  19. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Well I've had my second dose of vaccine. No ill effects
     
  20. Owain Taggart

    Owain Taggart Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Got my first dose this evening, and I have a lightness in my step. Guess that's one of the side-effects. That or I'm just happy to finally have it! :D