Coolest Spock combat ever in STID

[Kobayshi Maru]

I am sorry but I just don't buy it. Spock lost nearly his entire race plus his mother and yet he recovered pretty fast. Here he loses someone he's known for a little over one year, that he even didn't like for part of it. Plus he's a Vulcan for God's sake! That cry was just too much!

Spock never recovered from losing his world and mother. Thinking he got over it is totally misunderstanding his story arc. Listen to what he says on the trip to Kronos and you'll see.

Remember, Vulcans are taught to act unemotionally. They all feel. And the reason they act unemotionally is because beforehand, they very nearly destroyed themselves in nuclear wars. Even Tuvok, the "straightest" regular Vulcan character in Trek, refused to repress his emotions during his childhood and he lost his temper in "Random Thoughts"

All that said, Spock yelling "Khaaaaan!" was cheesy. I'd have preferred a smouldering fury, and the scream as a challenge once he beamed down to San Francisco and laid eyes on Khan.

I am sorry but if we use old Spock as a reference for judgment. As far as I know in all TOS he only acted mad and angry TWICE and in both instances he wasn't in his normal state. The first time was during Pon Far which is an exceptional phenomenon that only happens once every seven years and that the Vulcan keep a secret because they are somewhat ashamed of it and the second time was when he was regressed to an earlier form of his race by the atavachron and that's also something exceptional. Other than that we never see spock lose his cool one way or the other for the entire series. Current spock seems to lose his at the drop of a hat in comparison.

Something is not right here.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The old Spock never suffered anywhere near the kind of trauma the new one did. Take the younger, more emotional Spock of "The Cage", push him beyond the breaking point and you have the new Spock. He'll never be the original, he's damaged. Just like anyone would if you took a younger version of them and put them through all that.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

The old Spock never suffered anywhere near the kind of trauma the new one did. Take the younger, more emotional Spock of "The Cage", push him beyond the breaking point and you have the new Spock. He'll never be the original, he's damaged. Just like anyone would if you took a younger version of them and put them through all that.

Oh come on! Spock had his brain removed and put inside a computer and his comment about it was as casual as if he just learned that he had a hangnail! He even helped the failing doc rewire his nervous system.

That's how a Vulcan is supposed to behave!

As for the cage, IMO, it wasn't Spock that we saw there or even a Vulcan, he didn't have any of the characteristics we associate with Vulcans. It would be like taking all of the Armin Shimermann's Ferengi in TNG and pretend that they were all Quark. Well, they weren't.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The old Spock never suffered anywhere near the kind of trauma the new one did. Take the younger, more emotional Spock of "The Cage", push him beyond the breaking point and you have the new Spock. He'll never be the original, he's damaged. Just like anyone would if you took a younger version of them and put them through all that.

Oh come on! Spock had his brain removed and put inside a computer and his comment about it was as casual as if he just learned that he had a hangnail! He even helped the failing doc rewire his nervous system.

That's how a Vulcan is supposed to behave!

I don't think any personal suffering can quite compare to having your mother and entire world die before your eyes. Six billion deaths and the virtual extinction of your species is more than most of us can comprehend.

Follow that up a year later with the death of your mentor (and here Spock melds with him at death, so he knows exactly how horrible death is) and then watch your best friend die horribly the next day, while he's begging you to help him ease his transition.

Then there's Old Spock, who hid his emotions better, but whose voice was still breaking as he described events to Kirk, and whose "emotional transference" during their mind meld left Kirk crying and shaking.

"Jim, I just lost my planet. I can tell you - I am emotionally compromised."

As for the cage, IMO, it wasn't Spock that we saw there or even a Vulcan, he didn't have any of the characteristics we associate with Vulcans. It would be like taking all of the Armin Shimermann's Ferengi in TNG and pretend that they were all Quark. Well, they weren't.

Yet this younger, emotional Spock was shown again in "The Menagerie", once the TOS version of Spock was well established. It's part of Spock's back story. You might want to check out Vulcan's Glory, written by D.C. Fontana herself, to get a look inside Spock's head during this time in his life.

And again, Tuvok the full-blooded Vulcan refused to suppress his emotions during his teenage years. Vulcans aspire to a purely logical, emotionless state - but like real life, they often fail to live up to their own ideals. See also T'Pol, who was thoroughly corrupted by he four years with humans, ending up a brain damaged former drug addict.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

p

The old Spock never suffered anywhere near the kind of trauma the new one did. Take the younger, more emotional Spock of "The Cage", push him beyond the breaking point and you have the new Spock. He'll never be the original, he's damaged. Just like anyone would if you took a younger version of them and put them through all that.

Oh come on! Spock had his brain removed and put inside a computer and his comment about it was as casual as if he just learned that he had a hangnail! He even helped the failing doc rewire his nervous system.

That's how a Vulcan is supposed to behave!

I don't think any personal suffering can quite compare to having your mother and entire world die before your eyes. Six billion deaths and the virtual extinction of your species is more than most of us can comprehend.

Follow that up a year later with the death of your mentor (and here Spock melds with him at death, so he knows exactly how horrible death is) and then watch your best friend die horribly the next day, while he's begging you to help him ease his transition.

Then there's Old Spock, who hid his emotions better, but whose voice was still breaking as he described events to Kirk, and whose "emotional transference" during their mind meld left Kirk crying and shaking.

"Jim, I just lost my planet. I can tell you - I am emotionally compromised."

As for the cage, IMO, it wasn't Spock that we saw there or even a Vulcan, he didn't have any of the characteristics we associate with Vulcans. It would be like taking all of the Armin Shimermann's Ferengi in TNG and pretend that they were all Quark. Well, they weren't.

Yet this younger, emotional Spock was shown again in "The Menagerie", once the TOS version of Spock was well established. It's part of Spock's back story. You might want to check out Vulcan's Glory, written by D.C. Fontana herself, to get a look inside Spock's head during this time in his life.

And again, Tuvok the full-blooded Vulcan refused to suppress his emotions during his teenage years. Vulcans aspire to a purely logical, emotionless state - but like real life, they often fail to live up to their own ideals. See also T'Pol, who was thoroughly corrupted by he four years with humans, ending up a brain damaged former drug addict.

First the easiest one, T'Pol: I didn't think the actress did a great job of incarnating a Vulcan. She hugs, she cries, she takes mind altering drugs... and that's only a after a few years with humans!!! I mean have you ever seen another Vulcan act that way, even after having spent decades with humans!!! I half expected her to end in a Texan barbecue eating rare meat with her fingers while swilling beer from a can...

Tuvok's episode (Gravity if memory serves) was a bizarre one. Though madly in love, he was talked out of it... by talk!

What kind of love is that?

I don't know, at least T'Pol's cure against guilt was done with strenuous mindmelds that caused her to forget the incident, so that they could then re-emerge at the worst possible time.
Not very efficient, if you ask me. Those millennia old Vulcan practices could use some updating.

 

[Ovation]

The old Spock never suffered anywhere near the kind of trauma the new one did. Take the younger, more emotional Spock of "The Cage", push him beyond the breaking point and you have the new Spock. He'll never be the original, he's damaged. Just like anyone would if you took a younger version of them and put them through all that.

Oh come on! Spock had his brain removed and put inside a computer and his comment about it was as casual as if he just learned that he had a hangnail! He even helped the failing doc rewire his nervous system.

That's how a Vulcan is supposed to behave!

Really? One example (a half-human hybrid at that) is to be the embodiment of how all Vulcans behave? That's patently absurd. It's also one of the drawbacks of Star Trek--in far too many cases, one or two members of a sentient species is presented as "the way things ought to be" for the entire species. To its credit, Trek has occasionally made attempts to get out of this box, but not as often as it should have (for the sake of variety, if nothing else). But what I really don't understand is the stubbornness with which viewers cling to such stereotypes. No matter how "noble" or "pure" a human character on screen (or even in real life) would be, we wouldn't accept him or her as the archetype for the species. Why should we do so for a character that is a member of another sentient species?

 

[publiusr]

Both were five times human strength, so a little more damage to the surroundings would have been nice.

David Gautreaux, who was to play Xon, said he liked the idea of strength without size once.