cool that there are so many TMP threads

[JT Perfecthair]

TMP was a very important movie to me, sometimes I forget it wasn't a big deal for many other viewers. However, it does my heart good to see how many of the topics on just the first page of the "Trek Movies I-X" section concern TMP.

It just seems interesting that 11 films later, its TMP that so many are still curious about, with so many "what ifs" and "why the heck did they do that" topics.

I find it odd that over time the perception of time actually changes. For instance, I see posts where its said that there really wasn't a long gap between the end of TOS and TMP. Indeed, for a modern viewer, the 10 years between TOS and TMP doesn't seem like much when you have 40odd years of history, all the series and so many movies to look back on.

But I was there, before VCRs and cablevision, and that 10 years seemed like decades when there was only latenight hacked up syndicated TOS reruns to choose from. Unless you experienced that, then the arrival of TMP probably didn't have that effect on you; but if it did, then that effect continues to this day.

 

[Melakon]

Yeah, I saw TMP in the cinema when it came out. I knew it had faults, but I still went to see it 5 times just to give them the money.

 

[Christopher]

But I was there, before VCRs and cablevision, and that 10 years seemed like decades when there was only latenight hacked up syndicated TOS reruns to choose from.

Don't forget the animated series, which ended just five years before TMP was released, and was in syndication as well in subsequent years.

 

[Maurice]

To some fans TMP is a milestone because it represents a road not taken. For all its flaws it was an attempt to make Trek a tad more realistic and more serious SF, and subsequent films went in a different direction where the SF was more set dressing than part and parcel of the story. That's not to say it's a great film, just an interesting if somewhat failed stab at another approach.

 

[SchwEnt]

But I was there, before VCRs and cablevision, and that 10 years seemed like decades when there was only latenight hacked up syndicated TOS reruns to choose from.

Don't forget the animated series, which ended just five years before TMP was released, and was in syndication as well in subsequent years.

I'll also add that when we were all younger kids back then,
the years between TOS/TAS/TMP, say a decade, was a BIG deal.

We were kids, so a decade was OVER HALF OUR LIVES waiting for new ST.

And now, it seems decades go by like it was last Thursday and waiting five or eight years is nothing.

 

[The Old Mixer]

And you just had to make another one, didn't you?

It's a flawed movie and an acquired taste, but stands out for its singular strengths amongst the other films. Chief amongst these, it's the one that most feels like a full-scale movie in its own right, not a continuation of a TV series that's cutting corners by using stock footage and rented props.

We were kids, so a decade was OVER HALF OUR LIVES waiting for new ST.

I wasn't a Trek fan yet when TMP came out, but as I was born in 1969, it was literally my entire life at that point.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

To some fans TMP is a milestone because it represents a road not taken. For all its flaws it was an attempt to make Trek a tad more realistic and more serious SF, and subsequent films went in a different direction where the SF was more set dressing than part and parcel of the story. That's not to say it's a great film, just an interesting or somewhat failed stab at another approach.

This is the reason TMP is so interesting for me, though I tend to think of the film as a lost opportunity to introduce new characters and ideas into the Star Trek franchise. Had the proposed Phase II series launched with the "In Thy Image" pilot in place of what eventually became TMP, it would have been interesting to see a slightly different mix of characters undertake missions aboard the Enterprise.

Many of the character concepts intended for Phase II were recycled for TNG in the persons of Riker, Troi, and Data. Had the characters remained Decker, Ilia, and Xon, it's interesting to think about where the Phase II series might have gone. As an aside, one wonders if Roddenberry would've eventually trotted out his idea about the Kennedy assassination and used it in the TV series.

--Sran

 

[Christopher]

Many of the character concepts intended for Phase II were recycled for TNG in the persons of Riker, Troi, and Data.

And even Picard. His role as the accomplished veteran captain serving as a mentor for the ambitious young Riker was based on the role that the older Kirk was intended to play in Phase II. Indeed, since they didn't know how long Shatner would commit to the series, the idea was that Kirk would be training Decker as his successor and perhaps would eventually pass the captaincy to him. Similarly, Riker was intended to be more the central action-hero/romantic-lead character with Picard as the elder statesman who advised him, but then Patrick Stewart ended up stealing the show.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

And even Picard. His role as the accomplished veteran captain serving as a mentor for the ambitious young Riker was based on the role that the older Kirk was intended to play in Phase II. Indeed, since they didn't know how long Shatner would commit to the series, the idea was that Kirk would be training Decker as his successor and perhaps would eventually pass the captaincy to him. Similarly, Riker was intended to be more the central action-hero/romantic-lead character with Picard as the elder statesman who advised him, but then Patrick Stewart ended up stealing the show.

It's interesting to think about how that would have played out. Many of the first-season episodes are geared towards the Picard-Riker pairing with Riker taking the lead, such as "11001001." Hindsight is 20/20, but I've a hard time seeing how a Riker-dominated series would have had the same staying power with fans. As you pointed out, Patrick's performances were outstanding. I don't know that Frakes could have pulled off what Stewart did. I found Frakes' acting painful to watch at times.

To contrast that with the Kirk-Decker situation in TOS, Stephen Collins eventually proved himself to be a capable series lead in 7th Heaven. His performance as Decker wasn't great, but it's likely he'd have grown into the role with more episodes to flesh out the character. Eric Camden isn't Will Decker, but Collins' performance on another series gives us an idea of the potential he had as the primary protagonist in a series built around several different actors. With Shatner either leaving the series altogether or taking a smaller role as a recurring character, having Decker in the center seat may have worked extremely well.

--Sran

 

[inflatabledalek]

I guess the reason there are so many threads is because people need something to keep their minds off the dull bits when watching it.

More seriously... I think TMP is a film where it's not as bad as it's harshest critics say but equally not anywhere near as brilliant as those who love it claim. It's middling. Which is probably the worst thing a film can be.

But equally, I am glad as a Trek fan that is exists. Not just because it ensured so much of the Trek I enjoy more got made (not only because its success guarenteed sequels, those sets models and costumes provided the backbone of the franchise for most of the "Modern" era) but because as the fact it's kooky, odd and different compared to the other movies makes it stand out a bit and adds a bit of extra freshness to watching it that wouldn't be there as a one off movie.

Sure, mostly it feels like a roadmap for the future film makers showing them what not to do, but I'm still glad there's this one film out of the 12 that is so different in style and tone.

Plus, it's great to have on in the background whilst ironing. If nothing else, it's a damn good looking movie and the score is stunning.

 

[drt]

To some fans TMP is a milestone because it represents a road not taken. For all its flaws it was an attempt to make Trek a tad more realistic and more serious SF, and subsequent films went in a different direction where the SF was more set dressing than part and parcel of the story. That's not to say it's a great film, just an interesting if somewhat failed stab at another approach.

TMP is my favorite of the original cast films - partially because of a lot of nostalgia love, and partially because of this. I think I would have liked more films that were a direct follow up then the softly rebooted Meyer-Bennett ones.

 

[Christopher]

What I wish is that Filmation had arranged to do a second animated Star Trek in 1979 or 1980. Filmation's work around that time, in shows like Flash Gordon, Blackstar, and The New Adventures of the Lone Ranger, was more sophisticated than their work in TAS, with more dynamic animation (still heavily reusing stock, but more of it was stock action shots and rotoscoped character motions rather than static poses), more elaborate effects animation, and richer, lusher music, so it would've been cool to see (for a Filmation fan like me, at least). And an animated show could've made use of the exotic aliens glimpsed in the TMP crew, the way TAS used Arex and M'Ress, so it would've been a good opportunity to flesh out that era.

Then again, it probably would've ended up on NBC, and apparently Filmation's shows never found as much of an audience on NBC as they did on CBS, for whatever reason. So it might not have run long. Still, even just one season's worth would've been nice to have.

 

[drt]

Oh yeah, I loved that Flash Gordon show - man, I wish you hadn't put the idea of a TMP follow on animated series in my head, that would have been awesome.

 

[Gojira]

TMP is still one of my favorite movies. I do love how everyone gets back on the ship. Spock coming aboard the Enterprise is one of my most favorite parts of the movie. It does lag after that and then picks up speed toward the end.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I despise the fact that Director's Cut is the ONLY version of THE MOTION PICTURE available. It's nice that Robert Wise got to show us what he remembered and what his research had told him TMP aught to have been like, but ...

I would very much appreciate the Original Theatrical Release on DVD. I would even pay retail for it, at this point - I really don't care. Just give me the purest version of how it was when audiences first saw it. ... Is that really so much to ask?

 

[inflatabledalek]

Was the theatrical cut not the version on the DVD's that were put out the same time as the blu rays? IRRC the version of Star Trek VI on those DVD is the theatrical, same as the blu ray so it would be surprising if they didn't use the same print of TMP for the DVD as the shiny HD release.


EDIT:

Yep, this DVD claims to have the theatrical cut on it:

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-The...&sr=8-6&keywords=star+trek+the+motion+picture


One of the slightly annoying things about the blu rays is they could have easily included every cut of the films that have more than one version (I know there are HD issues with the Directors Cut, but if the TMP release had full HD versions of the theatrical and TV edits on it I think they could have gotten away with the third having non-HD effects shots in it) and thus keep everyone happy but don't bother.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I agree that TMP took several steps more towards hard science fiction than the other Trek movies. That overall take on the Trek universe, but especially as portrayed in the original theatrical version (with the atypical sound effects, in particular the klaxons and computer voices), is one of the things that I relish most about the film.

I've been wanting to mention how much I appreciate the recent thread activity, too. I found especially interesting learning about the background of Decker's character that didn't make it into the film. I've recently learned from the board about a lot of things that got cut, and in most of those cases it's a crying shame that it did.

Talk about the road not taken: In the past few years, I've come to appreciate that there was probably a really great and epic film in there that possibly needed just one more rewrite to get out. The recent thread activity has only reinforced and enhanced this viewpoint.

Yep, this DVD claims to have the theatrical cut on it:

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-The...&sr=8-6&keywords=star+trek+the+motion+picture

Thanks!

 

[Khan 2.0]

As someone mentioned somewhere. Fans/audiences went in expecting ‘Star Trek’ : The Motion Picture. What Roddenberry actually gave them was ‘Star Trek Phase 2’ : The Motion Picture.

its almost like Roddenberry saw 2001 in 1968 or 1969 when his TV series was constantly under threat and thought to himself 'man thats what star trek should be like..if i ever get the budget to do a star trek movie i will make it more like that'

Its funny when you think Star Wars was out just 2 years earlier and the success of that prompted Paramount to switch from doing the Phase 2 series or low budget tv movie to the big movie. one of the inspirations for Star Wars was obviously star trek with its action packed romp style...so fans will have been expecting and wanting the Trek movie to jump straight back into that feel.....yet Star Trek TMP shunned that in favour of a lofty 2001 vibe...with time its interesting to see it as a more realistic 2001 version of Trek as theres Wrath of Khan etc to enjoy but its easy to imagine the disappointment fans mustve had in 79 when theyd been waiting for the movie for the best part of a decade.

The anticipation of a huge budget Star Trek movie (with all the original cast) mustve been off the scale - esp with Star Wars just out near enough the previous year whetting everyones appetite for colourful space action ...they mustve been expecting epic space battles, phaser fights and Kirk Fu, nasty creepy aliens, klingons kicking ass, Kirk Spock Bones jokes/banter, that eerie uncanny Twilight Zone vibe alot of the season 1 eps had, light comedic moments, red/gold/blue uniforms similar to the tv show, colourful Ent interiors, beaming down to alien planets (all done on a bigger scale/more realistic) ....and instead they got 'Star Trek A Space Odyssey'

I wonder what the reaction would’ve been had it been the movie version of the TV Star Trek?

It probably would’ve made Star Wars box office

 

[Christopher]

I agree that TMP took several steps more towards hard science fiction than the other Trek movies. That overall take on the Trek universe, but especially as portrayed in the original theatrical version (with the atypical sound effects, in particular the klaxons and computer voices), is one of the things that I relish most about the film.

Not so much "atypical" sound effects as temporary ones. The film was rushed into theaters before it was finished, so it was released with a temporary audio track. Sure, it sounds "right" to people who grew up watching that version of the film (well, some of those people -- I always hated the theatrical cut's klaxon and computer voices), but it was not the sound design the filmmakers wanted the film to have, just the one they were stuck with because they were forced to release the unfinished film into theaters. Robert Wise even asked to be allowed to finish editing and mixing the film and then replace the unfinished cut with the completed one a few weeks into release, but the studio wouldn't pay for it. The Director's Edition uses the audio elements that were created at the time for the film but were left out due to the premature release, so it comes closer to representing how the filmmakers intended the film to sound.

As someone mentioned somewhere. Fans/audiences went in expecting ‘Star Trek’ : The Motion Picture. What Roddenberry actually gave them was ‘Star Trek Phase 2’ : The Motion Picture.

its almost like Roddenberry saw 2001 in 1968 or 1969 when his TV series was constantly under threat and thought to himself 'man thats what star trek should be like..if i ever get the budget to do a star trek movie i will make it more like that'

Well, keep in mind that before Star Wars came along, there were plenty of SF films that were in that more thoughtful, intellectual vein -- not just 2001 but things like The Andromeda Strain, A Clockwork Orange, Soylent Green, and Silent Running. Then you had the Planet of the Apes films, which straddled the line between cheesy action-adventure and dystopian social commentary. So it's not as if 2001 was the only exemplar for that approach to cinematic SF.

From the beginning, Roddenberry's goal for Star Trek was to do science fiction as intelligent, naturalistic adult drama. It was an action-adventure show because that was what the network insisted on, but he always aspired to sophistication. In the series bible, the examples he used for the kind of writing he wanted were Gunsmoke and Naked City, two of the classiest dramas on TV at the time.

...so fans will have been expecting and wanting the Trek movie to jump straight back into that feel.....yet Star Trek TMP shunned that in favour of a lofty 2001 vibe...

Again, don't assume it was specifically about 2001. And don't underestimate the impact that Robert Wise had on the film's tone as its director. The stylistic similarities between Wise's The Andromeda Strain and TMP have been noted countless times; they both portray their protagonists as cool, rational technocrats solving problems in a somewhat sterile futuristic setting. Maybe Strain itself was drawing on the example of 2001, or of a general perception at the time of what the future would be like (there's a similar sterility to the future as seen in the film The Illustrated Man from 1969), but Wise certainly embraced the aesthetic.

but its easy to imagine the disappointment fans mustve had in 79 when theyd been waiting for the movie for the best part of a decade.

Not everyone was disappointed. Some of us always wanted Star Trek to be more about exploring ideas and less about fistfights and shootouts.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I agree that TMP took several steps more towards hard science fiction than the other Trek movies. That overall take on the Trek universe, but especially as portrayed in the original theatrical version (with the atypical sound effects, in particular the klaxons and computer voices), is one of the things that I relish most about the film.

Not so much "atypical" sound effects as temporary ones. The film was rushed into theaters before it was finished, so it was released with a temporary audio track. Sure, it sounds "right" to people who grew up watching that version of the film (well, some of those people -- I always hated the theatrical cut's klaxon and computer voices), but it was not the sound design the filmmakers wanted the film to have, just the one they were stuck with because they were forced to release the unfinished film into theaters. Robert Wise even asked to be allowed to finish editing and mixing the film and then replace the unfinished cut with the completed one a few weeks into release, but the studio wouldn't pay for it. The Director's Edition uses the audio elements that were created at the time for the film but were left out due to the premature release, so it comes closer to representing how the filmmakers intended the film to sound.

I didn't know that that's where the DE elements came from.

I would have liked the DE audio much better, if I wasn't so dissatisfied with the results of whatever process they used to mix the DE elements in. Does anybody know for sure whether they had separate master audio tracks to work with in scenes such as the transporter accident? In particular, and to the point, were the theatrical edition elements to be replaced isolated on their own tracks? I have to believe that if the DE elements had been used originally back in 1979, that audio would sound much better than what we have for the DE.