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continuity? who cares

As I have said from day one, the continuity of Star Trek is the last thing these producers of TREK should worry about. Don't get me wrong, I love the history of Trek, but even some of us disagree about what has or hasn't happened in the continuity of TREK.

And to expect any new fans that may 'come' from this new movie to learn it as if the continuity is like some crazy ass TREK BIBLE would be silly. If this movie attracts new fans and has to jettison some long time fan with a continuity stick up their ass then I am all for it...

I have been with Star Trek from the begining, and I am willing to loosen the leash of the past that seems to choke every new star trek production that comes down the pike..

Rob
Scorpio
 
I disagree, Trek's backlog is far more of an asset than a hindrance.

Besides, I'm ambivalent enough about this new movie. If they ignore the established history it won't be worth my time, and I've seen every Trek movie in the theaters in their opening week.
 
If they're making this movie a reboot, then yeah, I guess they can go ahead and throw continuity out the window. However, Abrams and cohorts still won't comment on if this movie is a reboot or not. And based on the rumoured plot feturing Nimoy as elderly Spock and time-travelling Romulans from the 24th century, it does seem they're trying for some connection with establised Trek lore.
 
I disagree

Which is cool...

But I have been around long enough to see some of our fellow TREK fans roast them for getting the slightest thing wrong, and it is those kinds of fans that enforce the negative impression we have in the outside world....

And it will happen with the new movie. Anything they stray from will cause many TREK fans to go on this site, and others, and bitch about it to no end.

I, however, can see right through it because I, and I am sure even you, could punch wholes in the continuity as it stands right now. Khan meeting chekov...all the stuff ENTERPRISE monkeyed with...I mean, go down the list...

So what I am trying to say? The continuity of Trek already has holes in it you could drive a Galaxy Class starship through....and to hold this new movie, which is trying to reignite interest in a limp franchise, is not only wrong, it could be damaging as well.

Rob
Scorpio
 
They can do whatever they want, I guess, as long as the movie is entertaining. Perhaps even something like Chewbacca as the new helmsmen. That'd be pretty sweet.

I'm going to go see it no matter what. I'll just be disappointed a little inside if they don't even try to respect the established universe. Although, everything I've seen seems to me that they are respecting it just fine.
 
For me it all depends on what level of continuity are we talking about. If we're talking about the color of the railing being off, the length of the enterprise changing or the date of the eugenics wars, then I honestly don't care. That's all trivia.
I do care however if they change the characters (Kirk as a lesbian Eskimo) or the Trek "universe" (the federation as an oppressive entity), because that's messing with what trek is.
 
In September of 1966 I sat down to watch this new "Star Trek" thing. There was no canon. There were no trekkies. It was the coolest show ever, anyway. :techman:
 
Abrams and cohorts still won't comment on if this movie is a reboot or not.

Unless they say it is, then I will assume it isn't. I don't care how different it looks. Until I'm given a specific reason not to, I will consider this part of the existing Trek canon.
 
I think they can create an excellent story without being forced to contradict anything that's been in dialogue before. I could care less about fan speculation or belief. Hell you can't even take what you see on screen at 100% face value (unless you think star ships always do battle with one another from 1500 yards apart, have cardboard walls, and all of the Okudagram in-jokes are accurate). And since the film can't possibly be visually identical to the original (including the actors), who cares what it looks like as long as the fundamentals and the care are there and you can fill in the changes with a bit of imagination?

And so I would certainly rule out the assumption that just because the movie looks different it means that its a reboot, or takes place in an alternate universe or anything like that. Star Trek has a broad tapestry, and there is a hell of a lot of world building and history, but there is also a lot we don't know about the Enterprise and her crew, especially in their earliest days.
 
RobertScorpio said:
As I have said from day one, the continuity of Star Trek is the last thing these producers of TREK should worry about. Don't get me wrong, I love the history of Trek, but even some of us disagree about what has or hasn't happened in the continuity of TREK.

And to expect any new fans that may 'come' from this new movie to learn it as if the continuity is like some crazy ass TREK BIBLE would be silly. If this movie attracts new fans and has to jettison some long time fan with a continuity stick up their ass then I am all for it...

I have been with Star Trek from the begining, and I am willing to loosen the leash of the past that seems to choke every new star trek production that comes down the pike..
Rick Berman and Brannon Braga as well as the Voyager writing staff thought the same way and look at the fantastic stuff they churned out like Voyager and Enterprise.
 
I just want a good story and an entertaining film that captures what it was about the original that I fell in love with. As the Professor says, "Screw history!"
 
Rick Berman and Brannon Braga as well as the Voyager writing staff thought the same way and look at the fantastic stuff they churned out like Voyager and Enterprise.
Yeah, but I don't think that has much to do with why Voyager was bad or why Enterprise was flawed. I think that Voyager was a bunch of writers who got too comfortable with their TNG formula, so they fell into a creative rut but weren't much interested in doing anything about it. From what I hear Voyager was sort of a chore to the staff.

Enterprise was essentially the group's attempt at a fresh start and redemption. The problem was whether because the talent wasn't there in the first place or because their Summer of George that was Voyager made them slip and fall on invitations requiring outside help and creative physical therapy before they could get their creative comeback.

I think the thing with this canon issue in the new movie is this ambiguity as has been stated before. I'd be all for a reboot if it was clear that's what they were doing. I'd prefer a story that fit into canon (actually if I had my druthers I'd like to see a Romulan War movie, but I can see how that wouldn't be suitable as a comeback piece that re-introduces Trek to a mainstream audience), but this movie seems to straddle the line.

Ultimately I'm optimistic that it'll be a great movie no matter what though because it seems like the people involved are genuinely happy with it. It doesn't seem like spin at all.
 
Enterprise was essentially the group's attempt at a fresh start and redemption.

By writing a show that was inherently going to be continuity porn?

There is nothing fresh about a guy in his PJs rocking side to side in an armchair while shouting "shields!" - even if you replace the word shields with the word "hull armour".
 
Rick Berman and Brannon Braga as well as the Voyager writing staff thought the same way and look at the fantastic stuff they churned out like Voyager and Enterprise.

Nothing that's ever been really bad about "Star Trek" has been so because someone didn't care enough about the trivia that so obsesses a certain percentage of fandom.
 
Enterprise was essentially the group's attempt at a fresh start and redemption.

By writing a show that was inherently going to be continuity porn?

There is nothing fresh about a guy in his PJs rocking side to side in an armchair while shouting "shields!" - even if you replace the word shields with the word "hull armour".
It was an attempt. I really believe that with Enterprise their hearts were in the right place much more so than with Voyager. Voyager was sort of a cynical contractural obligation. But again, I think they were handicapped by talent that was either stagnant or not there in the first place. If they were able to get new people in on the project sooner then they may have solved a lot of their early problems.

But even with all its flaws I think the first two seasons work on some level.

Seasons 1 & 2: The crew naively explores without any agenda other than to seek out new life. They're hypnotized by Roddenberry's ideals so that they're blind to the Vulcan's perhaps over-compensatory pragmatism and skepticism.

Season 3: They get a tangible mission in which they must save Earth and their future.

Season 4: They come home heroes and Enterprise and crew serve, collectively, as political representatives, negotiators, and diplomats.

Were there further Seasons then we would have seen the beginning of the Romulan War and stuff.

Even though the first few seasons weren't executed in the best possible manner I think they really needed them, because it does show the arc progress.

Also, I kind of like that the season three arc was them facing a threat that we never heard of. Let them have their own baddies. Let them stake a claim in future history. I liked it because it served as a testing ground for them that would prepare them for the task of negotiations neccesary as brokers of treaties between what would be the founding worlds of the Federation.

Ideally, the show probably shouldn't have even been on a ship but been entirely a show about the buildup to the war and founding of the Federation. But that's may have been just as much the fault of the network as anyone else.

And it being a show that was inherently continuity porn is true, but the show's premise is merely a context. Almost any new show would have provided at least the opportunity for a new take. It's not the dates and ship classes but how differently the stories were told. I admit that they didn't really find their voice until it was probably too late, but all the shows took a while to be different.
 
Let's be honest, some of Trek's backstory and "canon" from the early TOS era is distinctly muddled, with terms like Space Fleet, UESPA and United Earth being bandied about willy nilly until they'd finally settled on the terminology of Starfleet and the United Federation of Planets slightly later in the series.

I'd prefer to see them craft a story that stays true to the spirit and ideals of the Star Trek franchise, rather than a story that gets tied up in knots trying to pay respect to every single iota of - sometimes very muddled - established canon.

The James Bond franchise has similarly muddled continuity and constant retcons, such as taking Bond back to the start of his career as a 00 agent in Casino Royale, but having M be a woman, and not only that, but the same woman who was depicted as being M far later into his career in the preceding movies. We didn't see any ardent James Bond fans getting their knickers in a knot over that, so I don't see why Star Trek should be any different. The franchise as it already stands has enough plot holes and inconsistencies to fit the whole of Starfleet through.

As long as "Star Trek" returns the franchise to its roots in terms of spirit and ideals, and avoids the excessive treknobabble and blatant fanwankery of its later incarnations (Nemesis!), I'll be more than satisfied with it.
 
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Ignoring continuity unless there's a good reason for it is just plain laziness. The Trek XI writers are being paid rather well, I assume. Make em work for their paycheck!

Just to go back to arguing about ENT, because it's so much fun:

Seasons 1 & 2: The crew naively explores without any agenda other than to seek out new life. They're hypnotized by Roddenberry's ideals so that they're blind to the Vulcan's perhaps over-compensatory pragmatism and skepticism.

Season 3: They get a tangible mission in which they must save Earth and their future.

Season 4: They come home heroes and Enterprise and crew serve, collectively, as political representatives, negotiators, and diplomats.

Were there further Seasons then we would have seen the beginning of the Romulan War and stuff.

Even though the first few seasons weren't executed in the best possible manner I think they really needed them, because it does show the arc progress.
I had an issue with the "naively exploring" part. Why would anyone on Earth fund random exploration? This is presumably before the no-money commie economy of Earth, since we were told Earth was still recovering from the disasters of the past. That contradicts the notion that anyone would be willing to pay for directionless exploration (leaving aside the issue that real scientists wouldn't spend 2 days tops on an alien world - they'd set up a research station and spend their whole lives there. Archer wasn't an explorer, he was a tourist).

The "Roddenberry ideals" were the Federation's ideals, and it worked because the Federation was powerful and therefore needed checks like the Prime Directive. And Archer didn't even follow these ideals. He barged around, acting like he owned the galaxy and showing little awareness of the huge risk that he could get Earth embroiled in a war with a far more powerful society due pissing off the wrong people.

Earth's problem was not that it was more powerful than everyone else, but that it was far weaker than its neighbors, and a lot of them were very aggressive neighbors, too. ENT should have been about Earth simply surviving this scenario, and ramping up quickly to put itself in a safer position.

Having a couple seasons of setup before launching into the Federation-building/Romulan War part of the story is a good idea. But why not actually make use of the idea that we're not in the enlightened 23rd or 24th C, but in the less enlightened 22nd, when people are still profit-motivated, Earth doesn't have infinite resources from some magical source that would underpin the idealized commie economy (there were still aspects of capitalism in TOS; it wasn't till TNG that these were expunged), humans are still bigoted and squabbling, and Starfleet is more military than even Kirk's time?

Almost all exploration in human history has been motivated by money. I see no reason why this should abruptly, magically change. We need to see the transition phase, and the 22nd C is a good place to see it happen. Archer & the gang should have been exploring to make important diplomatic, military and above all, trading contacts for poor little weak Earth - a society just taking the first tenuous steps into real space travel and at a serious disadvantage but also not being able to afford to wait till trouble came knocking on its door.

Archer's mission would have invariably embroiled him in interstellar politics, without him having to be stupid or naive to make it happen, and lead naturally to the Federation-building part of the story and giving the 22nd C a distinct character rather than what it turned out to be, a boring rehash of the 24th.
 
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