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CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI! *SPOILERS*

Captain59

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
SPOILER ALLERT!!!
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At least two people who have seen parts of the movie reference a line Scotty says in a scene where he and Kirk meet Leonard Nimoy's Spock. They're talking about an experiemental beaming technique, and Scotty explains that it worked on fruit but, "didn’t turn out so well for Admiral Archer’s beagle."

Let the flood gates open! Is Archer alive? Will we see him? Is this beagle Porthos the Tenth? Why would Archer let Scotty use his beagle in an experimental beaming? Was it really an experiement or was Porthos in danger?
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

Why would Archer be an Admiral after being President of the Federation? He would be well over 100 years old. Maybe even as old as McCoy was in Encounter at Farpoint.
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

Interesting. Officers are continued to be called by their rank even after retirement...but if you are a retired admiral and a retired president, which would people call you?
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

Why would Archer be an Admiral after being President of the Federation? He would be well over 100 years old. Maybe even as old as McCoy was in Encounter at Farpoint.

I hate pulling out this argument, but oh well. Archer as FedPrez was never stated on any show. The only place where it was even slightly indicated was in IaMD where they are reading bios, but that factoid was never mentioned nor was it actually legible on screen (if it even appeared at all). The writer of the bio (Mike Sussman?) even stated that it was slapped together really quickly and was riddled with typos and incorrect facts.

In short, that bio should not be taken as canon.
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

Or y'know it could be another Admiral Archer - Capy Jonny Archer's son maybe? And hey its feasible that even Archer's spawn would find Beagles cute and cuddly... or he hates 'em and said "Take my dog please!" :evil:
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

Interesting. Officers are continued to be called by their rank even after retirement...but if you are a retired admiral and a retired president, which would people call you?

General. George Washington established this precedent in the United States. Strictly speaking, someone should only be referred to as president if they are currently in office or if you are discussing their actions while in office.
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

In general, a flag officer who has later become President is referred to as "Mister President" even after leaving office, as are all former Presidents. However, there are occasions when people have referred to them by their military rank -- General Eisenhower, General Washington, etc.

I could see Archer being referred to as Admiral Archer by SF officers, though I would expect Spock to refer to him as "former President Archer" or some such.
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

True, and if he became president very early...maybe the first one, then he may have been relatively young when he left office. Knowing Archer and his desire for exploration, he may have gone back to Starfleet and become an admiral.
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

At least this little in-joke doesn't contradict "IaMD" outright, which is good enough for me. Even if there are minor problems with timing, there's also leeway: say, if the exact date of Scotty's ill-fated canine warp teleportation attempt is given, and is later than the date established for Archer's death, we can say the dog outlived his/her master.

Generally, I'd see it as a positive thing that the movie not only acknowledges the existence of other Trek besides the one it's primarily riding on, but also does it with style.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

I posted this in the "news items" thread, but it would probably get more notice here:


Quote:
Originally Posted by GulDucati
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn
Uhhh... how old would Archer be within Scotty's Starfleet career?

Uhm, a better question would be "how old would Porthos be?"


Ok let me try to figure this out:

Porthos was seen in "First Flight" while Archer was piloting in the NX Project. So at the very latest, Jon recieved him in 2143. The average Beagle lives 10-15 years. Porthos is still around during 2161 scenes in "TATV" making the dog 19 years old. Granted life spans are extended in the future (i.e. McCoy in "Farpoint"), so I guess that could include dogs too. But to say that Porthos was still around in Scotty's day, nearly a century later would be ludicous! Heck, Archer wouldn't have been around either: he would have been about 153 years old!

We would have to assume that this beaming technique wasn't first attempted by Scotty. If we cautiously use the bio points on Archer barely glimpsed in "In the Mirror Darkly" he retired as Capain in 2161, became Ambassador to Andoria in 2169, serves as Federation Councilor in 2175 and finally becomes Federation President in 2184 until stepping down in 2192. I would assume (and hope) that the unfortunate incident with Porthos occured in 2161 or (very) shortly thereafter.
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

Sorry, mythme, I didn't see your post over there.

You bring up a point I didn't even consider...that Scotty was talking about something that happened in the past. I had just assumed he was talking about something he did, but having it done in the past makes more sense. Still the question remains why Porthos was used in such an experiment. There is some quote in an ENT episode that suggests Archer values Porthos' life at least as much as other humans, something like, "the captain wouldn't even allow such a thing with his dog" or whatever...so I'd love to know the circumstances of this canine demise.

Who knows...maybe we'll find out in the movie. I would like to think it's established that the Admiral Archer talked about is indeed Jonathan, so we know for sure unlike if the Sulu mentioned in Voyager is actually Hikaru.
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

It does not say which beagle or when the problem happened.
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

Of all the ENT references they could've done, they had to pick this one.

Slipping in a mention to Archer's dog (even a namesake), being in a nasty transporter accident. On top of that, making it a joke for the film's comic relief engineer to say... What a sick joke.

The writers obviously thought Porthos was the only noteworthy part of Enterprise. I feel betrayed.

Great start. Just great.
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

You Scottish bastard, you killed my dog...

You Scottish bastard, you killed my dog!

You Scottish bastard...
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

The writers obviously thought Porthos was the only noteworthy part of Enterprise.

That is far from certain. There may be more substantial references included in the film.

A large part of Star Trek XI or possibly the entire film seems to take place in an alternate timeline anyway, so there should not be any continuity violations.
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

You do not directly address former Presidents of the United States as "Mr. President." You may refer to them as "former Presdient So-and-so" in the context of their time or actions in office, but they do not retain the title. If we take this as a convention that would be carried forward to the 23rd century, it is acceptable that Archer be referred to as Admiral even if he was once Federation President.

The entire staff of the radio station where I work were schooled in this etiquette by Governor Carter's staff in advance of his visiting to appear on our morning talk show.

Further citations:

From protocolconsultants.com:
"Head of State" in the USA is a Governor or the President. A leader in another country might be a president, prime minister, etc.



How to address a FORMER head of state:
  • Senators and Governors would retain their titles.
  • House of Representatives would be "Mr./Ms."
  • Heads of State - each embassy/country, may be different. Contact specific embassy.
  • all others including presidents, do not retain their titles; they are "The Honorable" or in person "Mr./Ms."
From the Boston Globe's Peter Post:
Q: I'm unhappy when I hear former presidents and other ex-officials addressed as ''Mister." Doesn't this belittle their importance? I was taught to address people with the highest title or position they've achieved in their career.
W.P., Chelmsford
A: You've waded into the quagmire of what's ''proper" here, so bear with me. When addressing a former president of the United States in a formal setting, the correct form is ''Mr. Last Name." (''President LastName" or ''Mr. President" are terms reserved for the current head of state.) This is true for other ex-officials, as well.
When talking about the person to a third party, on the other hand, it's appropriate to say, ''former president Last Name." This holds for introductions, as well: A current state governor is introduced as ''Governor Tom Smith," while you'd introduce an ex-governor as ''former Governor Jim Bell."
Now, let's wade a bit deeper. In an informal setting (such as a private lunch), it's acceptable to use the title the ex-official held. Here, you could refer to former president Jimmy Carter as either ''President Carter" or ''Mr. Carter."
Finally, if the person you're lunching with held more than one previous position -- say, judge and ambassador -- you'll want to know which title he or she prefers.

From Judith "Miss Manners" Martin:
The rule is that there is only one president of the United States at a time; therefore, the title does not accompany anyone out of office. Many lesser titles do, however, so a former president generally uses his last such title. The proper address is Senator Nixon, as it is Governor Reagan and Governor Carter.
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

I'm in two minds about this.

1- It's good if indeed this is the only reference to the utterly abysmal ENT in the new movie.

2- It's just a shame that ENT's best character (Porthos The Dog) met such a sticky end.
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

I still think there's a chance we'll see T'Pol as an instructor at the Academy, but this is a good start. At least we know the writers looked at ENT enough to know Archer had a beagle for a pet.
 
Re: CONFIRMED! ENT referenced in Star Trek XI!

I still think there's a chance we'll see T'Pol as an instructor at the Academy, but this is a good start. At least we know the writers looked at ENT enough to know Archer had a beagle for a pet.

Isn't an instructor technically a member of Starfleet? Shouldn't the first Vulcan in Federation's Starfleet be Spock?
 
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