Spoilers Concering the ones who attacked Mars

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by NCC-73515, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So now we know that the androids apparently attacked Mars.
    Did Lore have anything to do with it? Did Starfleet build an army of Soong-type droids, perhaps with Maddox's help, and then they went rogue?
    Did CONTROL take over the droids? Or did some Starfleet judge rule that these droids are not sentient like Data, and they were enslaved, and that's why they attack?
    Certainly has huge implications for Picard, since he's the one who fought for their liberties.
    It also brings up interesting connections to the Borg that we know are part of the show as well.
    Anyway, I'm very excited that they were apparently not Romulans as we all thought.
    It seems rather similar to Terminator or Matrix again though, with our machines rebelling against us.
    It would be cool if Bruce "Mad Doc" Maddox actually built his army of droids and he's the villain.
    Or did the hordes of EMH Mark Is have enough of tube scrubbing and they're fighting for their freedom now?
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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  2. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Perhaps Dr. Jurati had some part in building these new "Synth's" and is feeling responsible for their actions?
    That's why she insists on joining Picard in his newest avocation.
    :shrug:
     
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  3. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    19 Rogue Synths hijack federation shuttles and attack Mars, under direction/command of Lore. 3000 dead.

    Federation population is shaken and blame all Synths. Anti-synth attacks throughout the Federation. Federation invades Tzenketh (based on a rumour that's where Lore is). They don't find Lore, so they then invade Cardassia. At this stage half the Federation believes Garak attacked Mars, they've forgotten who Lore is.

    Meanwhile Romulan star goes supernova dcausing massive refugee problems. Federation closes it's borders and refuses to help because of the attack on Mars.

    Lore found hiding in Gorn space, captured, dismantled, and is stored in drawer. Federation still occupying Cardassia and has a large deployment in Tzenketh.

    Federation in a moment of madness elects Brunt as president as he promises to build a forcefield at the romulan neutral zone. He starts saying the Klingons aren't paying enough of their GDP into defence and starts to pull out of alliances, while building support for an invasion of Bajoran space (Bajoran vedeks overthrew the federation puppet government after a hostage crisis on DS9 and Bajor was under federation sanctions for several years). Federation assasinates a Bajoran general who's visiting Cardassia, claiming he's been funding attacks on federation ships by Orion pirates

    Bajor retaliates with an attack on starbase 375, which kills noone, and a Bajor-Ferengi shuttle crashes in the Denorious belt shortly after leaving Bajor, and that's where we open the series. Will Brunt respond aggressibly to Bajor? Or will it de-escalate? Will Brunt will the next election? What will happen to the refugee crisis? The Romulan supernova is already having effects, melting glaciers on Andor and setting Vulcan on fire, but the Federation (and other species) are still pushing out the subspace polution that caused the supernova in the first place.
     
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  4. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I do wonder why they're called "synths" and not "androids." Android was the established in-universe name for Soong-type constructions after all.

    Maybe they're constructed with the help of borg tech jerry-rigged into them, in an attempt to allow them to better communicate with one another in their own "collective?" But the Romulan faction from Countdown who gets access to Starfleet's security codes subverts them?

    After the rebellion, all remaining synths are quarantined on a decomissioned Borg cube. They look completely human externally.
     
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  5. picardjean-luc

    picardjean-luc Captain Captain

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    Sounds like a reasonable theory to me.

    However, how do the androids tied in with the plot of the "Countdown' comics,
    which involved Romulans taking over Picard's ship, the USS Verity using faked encrypted codes and hijacking it for some unknown purposes, possibly involving it in an attack on Mars??

    The comics also pointed out LaForge is working in the Utopia Planitia shipyard just above Mars. Would he be affected in the attack and become one of its many casualties?
     
  6. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Countdown comic - and the opening of the new short, where Lil's dad talks about how busy he is - makes it clear these happen concurrently. That is to say, the Federation was building the relief armada at Utopia Planetia when the synths attacked.
     
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  7. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Agnes Jurati is probably too young to have been instrumental in building the synths. She looks to be around mid 30s, meaning she'd be in her early 20s when this short (and the Countdown comic) happened.
     
  8. picardjean-luc

    picardjean-luc Captain Captain

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    And one of these synths is presumably Dahj. That's why she was referred to as "the end of all and the destroyer" in one of the trailers. She has forgotten her origins as her memory was fully erased when she was first imprisoned in the Borg cube.

    Dahj escapes and finds Picard in his vineyard. He instantly recognizes her as a Data-like android and his first instinct is to find her and to protect her. He goes to Starfleet Command to find more info about her only to be told off by the powers in charge now.

    This sets off Picard on his new adventure in the series. Thanks for helping us figuring out the intro plot :beer:;).
     
  9. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe synths aren't androids at all, but sort of "reverse borg"

    Basically, they start out with an android endoskeleton, and use borg nanoprobes to incorporate human (or other) DNA, and use it to grow real human organs and tissue on top.

    Hence Borg are fundamentally lifeforms augmented with machines, while synths are fundamentally robots augmented with living tissue.
     
  10. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    We do see a closet full of androids in the Picard trailers.
     
  11. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We do. They appear to be Soong-type androids through - presumably less advanced than Data. And it's a bit difficult to believe that if rogue androids caused this attack that Starfleet would continue open research into them.

    It may well be involved somewhat, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are different in some way than whatever the "synths" were which caused the attack.
     
  12. SCE2Aux

    SCE2Aux Commander Red Shirt

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    It's interesting that you mentioned the possibility of less advanced song type androuds: my current theory is that the Star Trek: Picard character who is apparently a positronic brain expert had access to B4 (somewhat implied in the trailers) and used her knowledge of B4 to create these 'synths', which go on to attack Mars.
    In the actor interviews it has been said that all characters are carrying emotional baggage, and I think that she is suffering from guilt over what she's created.
     
  13. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's possible, but as I said, Jurati is already a fairly young character, and she'd presumably be just out of Starfleet when the attack happened, meaning if she played any role (unless she's Leslie Crusher or something) it would probably be in a very junior status.
     
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  14. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Another thing I'm wondering about, beyond who the synths are - why attack Utopia Planitia? Did they have something against Romulans in particular, and wanted to make sure as many of them died as possible?

    If they were just being used as indentured servants, the most logical decision, once they "broke free" would be to just hijack a bunch of ships and run away with minimal casualties.

    Also, it's unclear where they got their fleet from. The little bit of info from FNN certainly makes it seem like they appeared out of nowhere.
     
  15. Datasbeard

    Datasbeard Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That would make sense. From the Countdown comics, we know this is where Starfleet is building its rescue armada. If the Synths were mistreated by the Romulans, they may well want to exact revenge by preventing their rescue.
     
  16. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Why attack the WTC?
     
  17. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    I think a group of Romulans were working with, or reprogrammed the synths.

    In the prequel comic, some Romulans think the rescue fleet being built is an invasion fleet. They don’t believe the federation is trying to help them.

    They were able to hijack a federation cruiser’s computer why not some androids?
     
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  18. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That is looking like the most likely option. That is somewhat less interesting though in terms of narrative, as it means the synths are not free agents, but simply tools.
     
  19. tribbleorlfl

    tribbleorlfl Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Assuming we're all correct in this plot direction, I'm assuming the Androids we saw in the trailer are of the type that commit the attack. Based on some visual cues (no hair, serial number stamped on their forehead) and some reasoned speculation (Dr. Jurati as a cybernetics researcher with likely B-4 disassembled in a drawer), I'm willing to bet these Synths were replicated using B-4 as a template. Because his positronic net was much less advanced than Data's, that would mean his copies would naturally be much closer to a tool than a self-aware individual like Data. Sure it takes their free agency away, but it makes sense (plus it sets up SF slipping on their ideals).

    To me where this gets interesting is what if Dahj is a new type of android, one that evolves out of these B-4 clones? She'd have Data's memory engrams via B-4, that's how'd she know she could trust Picard. Picard would rightfully view her as a new life form, while SF would stereotypicaly lump her in with dangerous Synths.

    That storyline interests me, and I don't think that works as well if her "parents" were fully-developed, autonomous and self-aware Androids.
     
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  20. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There's no reason why she can't be another genius in the field of robotics at the age of 20-something. Even if she is fresh out of the academy.

    Dr. Soong wasn't a universal anomaly. I'm sure there are more than a few folks out there in the Trek Universe with his high degree of intelligence.

    And we already know that Soong wasn't exactly successful with his first few tries.
    :techman: