Comparing the regular Borg to Lore's Rogue Borg

[Tiberius]

I always figured that Lore manipulated them into being his own personal army in return for freeing them from the Collective and returning them to their former lives.

Remember he was conducting medical experiments on them? Probably to find a way to overcome that node-in-the-head problem Seven faced in Imperfection.

 

[MikeS]

I'm trying to think of the collective as one "whole being" and my only explanation for this is that loosing just one drone is akin to us shedding a few dead cells.

 

[Sandoval]

I always figured that Lore manipulated them into being his own personal army in return for freeing them from the Collective and returning them to their former lives.

The rogue Borg did it in return for New Coke. The Borg will do anything for that shit.

 

[Anwar]

None of the "Descent" Borg were meant to be assimilated individuals, they were all supposed to be Borg that were Borg from infancy. They were meant to be the adult form of those baby Borg we saw in "Q Who?", ones who were never individuals in the first place.

That's why none of them regained their former individuality and why they were so susceptible to Hugh's individuality in the first place.

Lore promised he would make them all 100% robotic beings in exchange for their loyalty, of course he didn't know how to do it. That was why the Borg he experimented on were just deformed cripples.

 

[Tiberius]

None of the "Descent" Borg were meant to be assimilated individuals, they were all supposed to be Borg that were Borg from infancy. They were meant to be the adult form of those baby Borg we saw in "Q Who?", ones who were never individuals in the first place.

That's why none of them regained their former individuality and why they were so susceptible to Hugh's individuality in the first place.

Lore promised he would make them all 100% robotic beings in exchange for their loyalty, of course he didn't know how to do it. That was why the Borg he experimented on were just deformed cripples.

Source for this?

 

[Sandoval]

Source for this?

Tartar or hollandaise?

 

[Tiberius]

lol, source, not sauce.

 

[Anwar]

None of the "Descent" Borg were meant to be assimilated individuals, they were all supposed to be Borg that were Borg from infancy. They were meant to be the adult form of those baby Borg we saw in "Q Who?", ones who were never individuals in the first place.

That's why none of them regained their former individuality and why they were so susceptible to Hugh's individuality in the first place.

Lore promised he would make them all 100% robotic beings in exchange for their loyalty, of course he didn't know how to do it. That was why the Borg he experimented on were just deformed cripples.

Source for this?

It's the only thing that makes sense given what we know about the Borg. Otherwise they all would've regained their individuality once they were cut off from the Collective (and they WERE cut off) just like Picard and the Borg from "Unity".

 

[Tiberius]

None of the "Descent" Borg were meant to be assimilated individuals, they were all supposed to be Borg that were Borg from infancy. They were meant to be the adult form of those baby Borg we saw in "Q Who?", ones who were never individuals in the first place.

That's why none of them regained their former individuality and why they were so susceptible to Hugh's individuality in the first place.

Lore promised he would make them all 100% robotic beings in exchange for their loyalty, of course he didn't know how to do it. That was why the Borg he experimented on were just deformed cripples.

Source for this?

It's the only thing that makes sense given what we know about the Borg. Otherwise they all would've regained their individuality once they were cut off from the Collective (and they WERE cut off) just like Picard and the Borg from "Unity".

Speculation. Got it.

 

[Anwar]

And it explains the Baby Borg in "Q Who?" despite there being plenty of assimilated Borg as well. Two types of Borg, and apparently it's the "Pure" Borg who are more easily dealt with since one individual is all it takes to screw them up while that would never happen to assimilated Borg.

 

[JRoss]

Nearer than the Pah Wraiths?

 

[Kai Winn]

As horror creatures go, it extremely hard to take the Remans seriously.

They look just like Count Orlok in Nosferatu, as a vampire a true horror creature. Star Wars copied him as well for a race in their last installment. The copyrights for the 90 years old movie have probably expired.

 

[Mojochi]

Yes, Lore's Borg were scarier & more dangerous than the regular collective in my opinion, but not for the reasons you suggest

They were more dangerous, because they were rogue, & out of control, which made it easy for them to be manipulated by a strong mind like Lore. It's like they were the most hazardous WMD ever, & were ripe for the taking.

Frankly had it not been for Data getting control of himself, I could foresee a horrid future for the galaxy, wherein Lore, with the aid of Data, take over the Borg collective & conquer the whole damn galaxy, which was the REAL reason Lore wanted Data at his side. Data would be the only one who could stand in his way

Make no bones about it. Taking over that rogue Borg cube was not only the most fortuitous happenstance Lore had ever encountered, it was certainly his goal to use it as a launching pad to conquer the galaxy, in Hitleresque fashion

It's scarier simply because the Borg collective is an ominous unknown, but Lore is an all to well established evil, who's goal, ever since the days of the Crystalline Entity, was to decimate the Human race

 

[Mr_Homn]

The Borg are the nearest thing to the horror creatures in Trek...

Nearer than the Remans? I don't think so.

The Remans are clowns and failures. Their one shot at power and they backed the wrong horse (Shinzon), their lives were likely worst after the events of Nemesis than before.

As horror creatures go, it extremely hard to take the Remans seriously.

being failures and having worse lives after the events of the movie don't make them any less of a "horror" creatures, though. if anything it helps their case. Doesn't the horror creature usually die or get defeated at the end of the movie?? Not always but that is usually the case.

They were clearly based off of nosferatu, they were a shunned and tormented race and they live in dark scary caves. the direction was meant to make them seem creepy and scary, with heavy use of dimmed lighting and fog. they are definitely more "horror" than the borg as they appear in TNG, even though the borg are much more threatening (and cooler). I guess they became more "Horror-y" in first contact, and probably voyager too but i didn't watch most of that. But as far as the borg go in TNG the series (i.e. their conception/initial design), i wouldn't really rank them as "more horror" than the remans.

 

[Tiberius]

Sorry, I just don't buy that the Borg who are assimialted look different to the Borg who are grown in maturation chambers. There's no reason to believe it apart from the difference in appearance between the pre-FC and post-FC Borg.

And even then, the idea is shot down by the fact that the FC style Borg are the type that has been assimilated as an adult (remember Ensign Lynch?), so that means that if the other look for the Borg is the "grown in a maturation chamber" kind, why did Locutus look like that?

We've seen an adult assimilated and look like the old style, and we've seen an adult assimilated and look like the new style. So I don't see how there's any justification for it.

 

[Captain Atkin]

The Borg are scary (in part) because they're relentless and growing, per Picard's little "we fall back" speech. The Remans are clowns and failures. Their one shot at power and they backed the wrong horse (Shinzon), their lives were likely worst after the events of Nemesis than before.

In the end, both the Romulans and the Remans had it pretty bad, considering that Romulus was destroyed in nu-Star Trek (2009).

 

[Anwar]

Sorry, I just don't buy that the Borg who are assimialted look different to the Borg who are grown in maturation chambers. There's no reason to believe it apart from the difference in appearance between the pre-FC and post-FC Borg.

And even then, the idea is shot down by the fact that the FC style Borg are the type that has been assimilated as an adult (remember Ensign Lynch?), so that means that if the other look for the Borg is the "grown in a maturation chamber" kind, why did Locutus look like that?

We've seen an adult assimilated and look like the old style, and we've seen an adult assimilated and look like the new style. So I don't see how there's any justification for it.

I'm not saying they look different, I'm saying that there are two types of Borg that are different in origins: The ones who were never individuals (the baby Borg, Hugh and his group) and the assimilated ones who were individuals.

They can't all be forcefully assimilated, because then the Collective would be under THEIR control and not be aggressively assimilating everything.

 

[Tiberius]

I'm sorry, but that still seems like speculation to me.

There's nothing to suggest that the mind and personality of an assimilated person plays any part in what the Collective does.

 

[Anwar]

The Borg are a Hive Mind, the Collective is made up of the COLLECTIVE minds and wills of the Borg.

If the Borg are entirely made up of people that were forcibly assimilated, than that means the Collective is made up entirely from the minds of people who didn't want to be Borg.

This clearly isn't the case, meaning the Collective must have more minds in it that WANT to be Borg that they can drown out the wills and minds of the ones who DON'T.

 

[Oso Blanco]

The Borg are a Hive Mind, the Collective is made up of the COLLECTIVE minds and wills of the Borg.

If the Borg are entirely made up of people that were forcibly assimilated, than that means the Collective is made up entirely from the minds of people who didn't want to be Borg.

This clearly isn't the case, meaning the Collective must have more minds in it that WANT to be Borg that they can drown out the wills and minds of the ones who DON'T.

Maybe that's what the Queen is for ... directing the drones minds and controlling them.