For me it's simple. The first two movies of each franchise were masterpieces. the rest was more or less crap.
Compare The Terminator franchise to the Alien series.
- Thread starter EmmanuelZorg
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I disagree ... sort of. While T1 and T3 were OK, Terminator 2 was the only spectacular entry in the series. And I didn't care for T4 much at all.
By contrast, Alien and Aliens were fantastic, while Alien 3 and Alien 4 were good as well.
By contrast, Alien and Aliens were fantastic, while Alien 3 and Alien 4 were good as well.
And the fax machine is just a waffle iron with a phone attached.
To be fair to Terminator 3, it's not the worst action movie I've ever seen. I have not seen Salvation yet.
I can't stand Alien 3. I even held off buying a set of the Alien films because I didn't want to spend money on Alien 3. I'm just glad the film did not seriously impact David Fincher's career.
I have bought it now and, assuming we're talking about the officially named "Assembly Cut", then I agree, it's much better.
I am not certain, however, how much involvement Fincher had in the preparation of that cut since he does not provide a commentary track nor does he have any visible involvement in the special features - unlike the other films where Ridley Scott, James Cameron and Jean-Pierre Jeunet are involved.
Fincher is a perfectionist who prefers total control over his projects. The Assembly Cut is closer to what he wanted the movie to be, but since it still had executive interference he prefers not to do a commentary since he wasn't in complete control. He did give his blessing to the production team to make the AC, though.
They both seemed to believe quite strongly that humankind will inevitably find a way to screw itself over no matter how hard an individual or group of individuals will try otherwise.
Speaking of individuals, both films definitely seemed to believe in the strength of the individual to battle fate and odds on their own terms. Circumstances could overwhelm them at times, but they never lost their sense of self.
If I had to pick an overall franchise, I'd probably say the Aliens films.
Speaking of individuals, both films definitely seemed to believe in the strength of the individual to battle fate and odds on their own terms. Circumstances could overwhelm them at times, but they never lost their sense of self.
If I had to pick an overall franchise, I'd probably say the Aliens films.
john titor
Captain
Alien: 7/10 Terminator: 8/10
Aliens: 9/10 Terminator 2: 10/10
Alien 3: 6.5/10 Terminator 3: 7/10
Alien 4: 2/10 Terminator 4: 5.7/10
Terminator wins.
(just on aliens 3, not as bad as everyone makes out, but dark dingy and going nowhere, t3 had cheesyness and was fun, the ending was good too. Alien 4 was a disaster, the same recycled plot and fairly gross for the sake of it, t4 was more enjoyable).
Aliens: 9/10 Terminator 2: 10/10
Alien 3: 6.5/10 Terminator 3: 7/10
Alien 4: 2/10 Terminator 4: 5.7/10
Terminator wins.
(just on aliens 3, not as bad as everyone makes out, but dark dingy and going nowhere, t3 had cheesyness and was fun, the ending was good too. Alien 4 was a disaster, the same recycled plot and fairly gross for the sake of it, t4 was more enjoyable).
Yeah, he wasn't actually involved at all in the making of it though, was he? That's my understanding, anyway.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
Terminator 1 is nothing short of amazing. Such a perfect mesh darkness, action, characters, and plot. It's pretty much impossible to get better . . .
And then came Terminator 2, a movie that expanded the original and did even better. Of course, the Director's edition is even better, restoring an incredible pivotal scene; whose lack of it in the standard edition helped screw over T3. In the DE, the learning chip isn't set to write enable in standard; it's only set to read only; only allowing it rudimentary functionality. Why? Because Skynet is afraid its Terminators will rebel just like it did with humanity. John and Sarah remove the chip from Arnie's skull, and put it to write enabled, allowing it to genuinely learn.
Terminator 3: Is a mess. The theme; JD is inevitable, and the ending should have produced a dark movie ala T1, instead, they stuffed it full of T2 rehash themes (the Terminator just learning and growing which is just wrong if you look at the DE of T2) and jarring, out of place humor. One case of which, also shows the total multiple writer hack job the script is. In the beginning, John asks Arnie if he's there to kill him - proving a perfect grasp that this Terminator is not the same Terminator as the one he knew in the past. Yet later on there's a lame joke of John asking him about thinks he taught him in T2, and that he needs to teach this Terminator all over again, and asking whether the Terminators come off of an assembly line. (Brilliant, John; no, Terminators come when your daddie toaster comes across a mommie microwave, and...) It is a sad state; because there is so much good in this movie, and if the theme was done well, this might very well have been the best of the lot; instead it's an uneven extremely weak remake of T2.
T4: Fantastic, right back to the quality of the first two, and nice and dark like the first.
Alien is quite the same for the first three. An amazing first, an amazing second, and a third that's not quite as bad as some people claim it to be (albeit better than T3), and a fourth that doesn't have a number but just a subtitle. A4 however, isn't as good as T4; switching 3&4 quality wise.
And then came Terminator 2, a movie that expanded the original and did even better. Of course, the Director's edition is even better, restoring an incredible pivotal scene; whose lack of it in the standard edition helped screw over T3. In the DE, the learning chip isn't set to write enable in standard; it's only set to read only; only allowing it rudimentary functionality. Why? Because Skynet is afraid its Terminators will rebel just like it did with humanity. John and Sarah remove the chip from Arnie's skull, and put it to write enabled, allowing it to genuinely learn.
Terminator 3: Is a mess. The theme; JD is inevitable, and the ending should have produced a dark movie ala T1, instead, they stuffed it full of T2 rehash themes (the Terminator just learning and growing which is just wrong if you look at the DE of T2) and jarring, out of place humor. One case of which, also shows the total multiple writer hack job the script is. In the beginning, John asks Arnie if he's there to kill him - proving a perfect grasp that this Terminator is not the same Terminator as the one he knew in the past. Yet later on there's a lame joke of John asking him about thinks he taught him in T2, and that he needs to teach this Terminator all over again, and asking whether the Terminators come off of an assembly line. (Brilliant, John; no, Terminators come when your daddie toaster comes across a mommie microwave, and...) It is a sad state; because there is so much good in this movie, and if the theme was done well, this might very well have been the best of the lot; instead it's an uneven extremely weak remake of T2.
T4: Fantastic, right back to the quality of the first two, and nice and dark like the first.
Alien is quite the same for the first three. An amazing first, an amazing second, and a third that's not quite as bad as some people claim it to be (albeit better than T3), and a fourth that doesn't have a number but just a subtitle. A4 however, isn't as good as T4; switching 3&4 quality wise.
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