Commodore Stocker: Why "Sir" and Why The Hearing?

[SantaTom]

Minor issues with "The Deadly Years":

Why did Commodore Stocker continually refer to Kirk as "sir"? Even though Stocker was a "desk" officer, he definitely outranked Kirk.

Why did he have to have Spock convene the competency hearing? In "The Doomsday Machine," Decker asserts that he has authority as a Starfleet Commodore to assume command, and Spock offers no rebuttal. Why couldn't Stocker assume command the same way?

 

[Spock's Barber]

Minor issues with "The Deadly Years":

Why did Commodore Stocker continually refer to Kirk as "sir"? Even though Stocker was a "desk" officer, he definitely outranked Kirk.

Maybe it was because Kirk was technically an Older Fart than Stocker because of the aging virus he had contracted (?)

 

[Ithekro]

Well Decker is a Command/Line officer (or flag officer). Stocker is engineering/operations/security officer (or flag officer). Traditional naval practice has it that the commanding officer of a ship (if not its actual commanding officer) is the highest ranked line officer. This could be an ensign if he is a line officer and the Commanders, and Commodore are all engineers, scientists, and doctors.

 

[Melakon]

I've always thought Stocker's use of "sir" was more of a personal courtesy, rather than protocol of rank or position. The Enterprise is doing him a favor by ferrying him to his new command, and he seems to be the type of person who doesn't flaunt rank. He almost seems apologetic whenever making suggestions.

 

[Lance]

^ I agree with that interpretation, Melakon. Stocker's got the rank, but he obviously isn't the sort of guy to throw his authority around (unlike Decker). Not to mention he recognises that he's more of a desk jockey than an officer on the front, and that the Enterprise is Kirk's ship. Hence, courtesy.

 

[Therin of Andor]

When Roddenberry was challenged by fans quibbling about ranks, he would say, "In Starfleet, rank is more like a job description."

 

[CrazyMatt]

^ I agree with that interpretation, Melakon. Stocker's got the rank, but he obviously isn't the sort of guy to throw his authority around (unlike Decker). Not to mention he recognises that he's more of a desk jockey than an officer on the front, and that the Enterprise is Kirk's ship. Hence, courtesy.

I agree with this agreement.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I haven't seen it in 30 years, but I think I recall this happening in The Bounty (1984). Anthony Hopkins as Captain Bligh would address a subordinate officer as Sir, even when (no, especially when) screaming in his face. It was just the etiquette, the proper way of acknowledging that this lower guy was an officer too.

The other thing was, an officer rated "Mister," while the hands were addressed by their last names only.

 

[Green Shirt]

Probably just a respect thing.

 

[T'Girl]

I've noticed people from the American south do this a lot.

Commodore Stocker never (to my memory) disrespected Kirk at any point, even when he was taking away Kirk's command. Stocker was doing what he felt his duty required, it wasn't him jumping at the chance to command the Enterprise out of his own ego.

His initial thought was that Spock (not himself) would assume command in Kirk's stead.

Some of his actions were wrong, but he actually come off as a nice guy.

.

 

[John Cooley]

Clearly none of you have ever served. "Sir" is by no means a indicator of rank but rather a polite way of addressing someone by means other than their name, rank, or position. I've called subordinates "Sir" and my commanders too.

Additionally, I'll occasionally refer to my Dad as "Sir" as a term of affection or respect, and when referencing my past service in the military; my father who is also a veteran will occasionally call me "Sir".

It has little to do with anybody's rank or status at all, and is simply a courtesy that seems to be dying out along with so many others.

John

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

It has little to do with anybody's rank or status at all, and is simply a courtesy that seems to be dying out along with so many others. John

You got that right, Sir.

Thus far, I'm surprised at the reactions here. Commodore Stocker always struck me as sort of a dope, who was putting his appointment at Starbase whatever ahead of the issue with the stricken crew, to the point of endangering the ship for no better reason than his own haste.

 

[SchwEnt]

This was my impression as well. Sure Kirk is the captain of the vessel, and Stocker may well be the opposite of Decker in respecting Kirk's command.

But yes, Stocker does seem to apologetically defer to Kirk at every turn, almost pardoning himself for making the slightest suggestion.

Stocker may be a staff officer and not a line officer, and not in command, but as a Commodore he does outrank Kirk. I saw virtually no indication of that superior rank from Stocker.

It very much seemed that Stocker was reluctant to voice his opinion or assert any authority, despite his rank as Commodore, senior rank aboard the vessel.

 

[Spock's Barber]

Clearly none of you have ever served.

I served 6 years in United States Marine Corps. "Aye, aye, sir" was my standard response to an order. Among my fellow NCOs, when an enlisted man referred to us as "Sir", we usually replied, "We're not officers. We work for a living. You don't have to call us 'Sir.'"

 

[J.T.B.]

It's kind of an old-school naval thing, if you read accounts from the 1800s people are calling each other "sir" left and right, senior or junior. It still survives in the US Navy, though, for instance an lieutenant coming on duty as officer of the deck would say to an ensign "I relieve you, sir" because the ensign is "in charge" while on duty.

So yeah, a courtesy from Stocker to Kirk to underline the fact that he's just a passenger and Kirk is in charge of his ship.

 

[King Bob!]

It very much seemed that Stocker was reluctant to voice his opinion or assert any authority, despite his rank as Commodore, senior rank aboard the vessel.

I saw no issue with him deferring to people who were experts in starship operations.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Have I been misreading this episode all these years? I always assumed Stocker was a bit of a putz (albeit a well-intentioned one), who's answer to everything was 'Starbase Four'. It seemed practically everything he said ended with 'Starbase Four'. We know, we know, you want to get to Starbase Four.

I'll have to re-watch it, with new eyes. Maybe I did miss something.

 

[Spock's Barber]

Have I been misreading this episode all these years? I always assumed Stocker was a bit of a putz (albeit a well-intentioned one), who's answer to everything was 'Starbase Four'. It seemed practically everything he said ended with 'Starbase Four'. We know, we know, you want to get to Starbase Four.

I'll have to re-watch it, with new eyes. Maybe I did miss something.

Kirk's opinion of Stocker..."The man's a chair bound, paper pusher!"

 

[King Bob!]

Have I been misreading this episode all these years? I always assumed Stocker was a bit of a putz (albeit a well-intentioned one), who's answer to everything was 'Starbase Four'. It seemed practically everything he said ended with 'Starbase Four'. We know, we know, you want to get to Starbase Four.

I'll have to re-watch it, with new eyes. Maybe I did miss something.

Kirk's opinion of Stocker..."The man's a chair bound, paper pusher!"

But wasn't that after he was aging and being threatened with losing his command? I always wonder why Sulu wasn't in line for command though? Especially if Stocker wanted to take a shortcut through the Romulan Neutral Zone? He had been described as an experienced combat officer in "Arena".

 

[Push The Button]

Have I been misreading this episode all these years? I always assumed Stocker was a bit of a putz (albeit a well-intentioned one), who's answer to everything was 'Starbase Four'. It seemed practically everything he said ended with 'Starbase Four'. We know, we know, you want to get to Starbase Four.

I'll have to re-watch it, with new eyes. Maybe I did miss something.

Kirk's opinion of Stocker..."The man's a chair bound, paper pusher!"

But wasn't that after he was aging and being threatened with losing his command? I always wonder why Sulu wasn't in line for command though? Especially if Stocker wanted to take a shortcut through the Romulan Neutral Zone? He had been described as an experienced combat officer in "Arena".

If I were Stocker, I would have deferred to Sulu's judgement, "we've tangled with them before", and let him take the chair. But that would have fouled up the story, removing the need for the newly-young-again Kirk to save the day at the end of the episode.