Comic Companies continue to drive me away...maybe you as well??

[darkwing_duck1]

Same here. Destroying decades worth of some of the most important modern mythology ever made in an attempt to make Lee and Kirby's world conform to how you think it should be is creative narcissism. Joey Q is a great businessman. But he's a terrible editor. He loves most of the bad ideas and hates most of the good ones. Mostly because the bad ones almost always involve controversy, and he loves that. And he refuses to retcon anything, no matter how terrible or controversial the creative ideas are. I long for the days of when Marvel didn't have to resort to controversy or shock tactics in order to sell books. Like I've said before, the only Marvel book I read anymore is The Punisher. Because ironically that fucking lunatic (and I mean that in the good way) Garth Ennis is the only writer at Marvel I trust, with out question, to have the creative restraint and maturity not to screw up classic Marvel characters. But now he's leaving so now I'll pretty much wash my hands of it all.

Punisher is almost IMPOSSIBLE to frak up, his concept is so simple (though Punisher as mob don and Punisher as semi-angelic enforcer came close to doing it).

Joey has another problem (one he either shared with or caught from Jemas), he thinks his readership has the attention span of an ADHD gerbil. Editors' Notes? Too confusing...get rid of them and stop doing things that require them (ie, chuck the entire character history out the window). The Marvel Universe began sometime in 2002. "Ultimate Marvel" is how the MU SHOULD be.

Need I go on?

Dann Dido is the mirror universe version of Quesada, mustache and all. He's a Silver Age Nazi who needs to get over the fact that it's not 1972 anymore. He's undercutting decades worth of creative progress to try and recreate something that really wasn't that great to begin with(sorry guys but IMO The DC Silver Age sucked). Some of his decisions led to good results, like bringing back Hal Jordan, even though I still disagree with it. But most are terrible IMO. Killing Spoiler, bringing back Jason Todd, bringing back Barry Allen, killing Bart Allen, etc. And don't even mention giving Grant Morrison free reign to do whatever he wants, which is always a mistake. The cancellation of Nightwing and Robin's solo titles was the last straw for me. If Johns writes it it's probably golden, but I don't know how much of this nightmarish nostalgia trip I can take.

Don't get me started on bringing back Hal (after letting lazy writers totally frak up Kyle)...

And the DC universe is MORE than just the "A" list characters...I often found the "B and C listers" much more interesting than Supes, Wondy, and the rest of the "Magnificent Seven".

Marvel under Joey has the same problem. He summarily killed off the New Warriors (classic team) JUST to get rid of a bunch of characters he personally hated, and had the writers MIS-write them in order to do it...

 

[zakkrusz]

I was never one for comics to begin with, and didn't really start any. I do read some manga though, I'm following 13 of those.

 

[Thrall]

Punisher is almost IMPOSSIBLE to frak up, his concept is so simple (though Punisher as mob don and Punisher as semi-angelic enforcer came close to doing it).

I would have thought that too, until I read Mark Millar's take on him in Civil War. Truly terrible.

Joey has another problem (one he either shared with or caught from Jemas), he thinks his readership has the attention span of an ADHD gerbil. Editors' Notes? Too confusing...get rid of them and stop doing things that require them (ie, chuck the entire character history out the window). The Marvel Universe began sometime in 2002. "Ultimate Marvel" is how the MU SHOULD be.

That's one of the main differences between current DC and Marvel. DC loves it's history, it's backstory, and it's continuity(for better or worse). It loves it's cheesiness and daffiness as much as it likes it's mythology and epic scope. Marvel has become the MTV of the super-hero genre. They do everything they can to make their product "cool". Nothing else matters other then that. What they fail to realize is that they're still just superhero's in tights running around beating up bad guys at the end of the day. Marvel does everything it can to act like everything before Quesada took over never happened, except for the uber-popular, genre defining stuff of course.

Don't get me started on bringing back Hal (after letting lazy writers totally frak up Kyle)...

I like the fact that they brought back the mythology and the universe, but I find Kyle to be a more relateable and interesting character. They could have easily done most of what they wanted to do without Hal, but then the die hard Silver Age freaks would probably never have gotten on board.

And the DC universe is MORE than just the "A" list characters...I often found the "B and C listers" much more interesting than Supes, Wondy, and the rest of the "Magnificent Seven".

Getting rid of the legacy characters and supporting characters cheapens the universe. If things keep up I promise you that Time Drake will be dead, Dick Grayson will be magically turned into a teenager again and will be back in the Robin costume, and Barbara Gordon will be walking again. Fun times!

Marvel under Joey has the same problem. He summarily killed off the New Warriors (classic team) JUST to get rid of a bunch of characters he personally hated, and had the writers MIS-write them in order to do it...

He's been using his clout to change things for the worse for years, this is nothing new. One More Day and Brand New Day was the best of both worlds for him. Not only does he get to keep Gwen Stacy fucking Norman Osborne canon(which was his idea), but he gets to destroy Peter's marriage, which he's been trying to do for years, because he hates married couples. And he gets to do it without complicating things either through a divorce or killing off Mary Jane or an extra-marital affair being involved. Which is, I guess, a blessing in disguise because that's an opportunity that Scott Summers never got. If he could break up Reed and Sue without destroying the credibility of The Fantastic Four, he'd do it in a heartbeat. I highly suspect that their estrangement during Civil War was to test the waters to do just that.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I couldn't care less about DC's shared universe, but I'm enjoying what Geoff Johns is doing with Superman--I haven't been a regular reader of the Super-Titles in two decades, but their current approach has brought me back. Escape from Bizarro World, Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes, Brainiac, Legion of Three Worlds, and New Krypton have all been superb. Throw in the terrific Green Lantern series and the upcoming Flash: Rebirth, and I'm very satisfied.

The only comic-book I buy is Geoff Johns' JSA. I love this book and the inclusion of Kingdome Come Superman..and now the discovery of Earth-two and this whole Magog thing...The problem? It only comes out once a month!!!

whoops..I am also buying the new BRAVE AND BOLD..though I wish it would go back to the old BATMAN-GUEST STAR formula..would make sense with the new cartoon of the same name..

Rob

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've scaled back on a lot of Marvel/DC stuff, but I still buy my fair share of independent books.

I'll never really quit reading comics.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

He's been using his clout to change things for the worse for years, this is nothing new. One More Day and Brand New Day was the best of both worlds for him. Not only does he get to keep Gwen Stacy fucking Norman Osborne canon(which was his idea), but he gets to destroy Peter's marriage, which he's been trying to do for years, because he hates married couples. And he gets to do it without complicating things either through a divorce or killing off Mary Jane or an extra-marital affair being involved. Which is, I guess, a blessing in disguise because that's an opportunity that Scott Summers never got. If he could break up Reed and Sue without destroying the credibility of The Fantastic Four, he'd do it in a heartbeat. I highly suspect that their estrangement during Civil War was to test the waters to do just that.

Worse, his attitude towards the fanbase is pretty much the same as that displayed over in the ST XI forum towards the Trek fanbase: "buncha whiny, basement dwelling 40 year old virgins whose obessive-compulsive worship of the past has ruined the franchise and they must therefore be ran off or burned at the stake".

 

[Admiral_Young]

I've scaled back on my comics big time over the last four or five years and pretty much only collect TPB or Hardcover of the major company crossovers and Trades of storyarcs such as Last Son or Batman R.I.P. Otherwise I don't normally buy single issues any more.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I've scaled back on a lot of Marvel/DC stuff, but I still buy my fair share of independent books.

I'll never really quit reading comics.

Same here. Independents, archives and nostalgia magazines.

I've quit reading comics twice. The first was when Kirby left FF. It wasn't a protest or anything, I just lost interest; especially since I was really getting into SF at that time. I got back into it a couple of years later when I found out about the horror stuff. The second time was in 1978 when the Marvel Bullpen fell apart, and everything started to suck. I got back in a couple of years later when the direct market opened up; and Marvel experienced a creative renaissance at the same time. At this point, I know enough not to quit comics no matter what; I just love them too much. But, damn, Marvel sucks more now than in the late 70s or even the 90s; and there's precious little to be found elsewhere, either.

 

[CommodoreKong]

Aside from Buffy Season 8 graphic novels, Angel After the Fall graphic novels, and random graphic novels here and there I just don't read comics.

I wouldn't mind reading a bunch of DC and Marvel superheroes, but there are 2 things that they need to do to get me as a customer.

1. Have a book that's dedicated to a single character/the events surrounding them (say a Batman comic that has all of the secondary characters in it and doesn't require you buy a Robin book, a Nightwing book and 2 other Batman books with different titles) and doesn't require reading any other books to understand the storyline.

2. Only release the book every 3 months or so, making it about 100-150 pages. I'm not the least bit interested in reading 20-30 page comics, it's like watching 1/4 of an episode of a TV show.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

2. Only release the book every 3 months or so, making it about 100-150 pages. I'm not the least bit interested in reading 20-30 page comics, it's like watching 1/4 of an episode of a TV show.

That's the effect of another bad decision Marvel pioneered under Jemas/Quesieda: "pacing for the trade". Older Marvel comics would service the A plot (plot of the issue), the B plot (2-4 issue arc), and one or more C plots (character development in every issue, making for a more satisfying read...

 

[Tomato]

Just wanted to add my two cents. Didn't read anything in depth but here it goes. Even though their is much complaints about Joe Q., Mark Millar etc... In the end Marvel is destroying DC in the monthlies. I can't even remember a month where DC outsold Marvel in units or in $. So yes people bitch about them but these guys are writing/doing things which keep people coming back for more.

Second thing. I believe 50% of Marvel's revenue now comes from Media sources other than comic books (ie films etc.) So what that means to me as a reader. Is comics are secondary now and are used just to try out film concepts. Ie. Comics are just about dead in terms of the executives who run these companies

Third thing. The highest selling comic this year was..... The GOW comic with a printing of .450k. Ridiciculous huh??

I don't know if comics are ever going to be mainstream as it once was. Although I hope so. I love this medium to death and just thinking about some of the stories that would not be fostered scares me. I'll keep on supporting this industries with my money but I'm just a small drop in the bucket. I hope the guys that can do something to turn around this ship do something.

 

[Mr Light]

A Gears of War media tie-in was the highest selling comic the year?!?! Really?!?! Over Secret Invasion?

 

[TemporalFlux]

I can't even remember a month where DC outsold Marvel in units or in $. So yes people bitch about them but these guys are writing/doing things which keep people coming back for more.

The last time I recall it being close was during Infinite Crisis back in 2005, and DC then proceeded to throw away their advantage with the production delays and half-baked ideas of One Year Later.

Of course, Marvel came out with Civil War during 2006, and I believe it would have trounced whatever DC put out there anyway. To my memory, Infinite Crisis managed what it did because Marvel didn't have much going on at the time.

 

[Tomato]

A Gears of War media tie-in was the highest selling comic the year?!?! Really?!?! Over Secret Invasion?

See here http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18852

Ridiculous isn't it. Sort of reminds me when Tomb Raider comics were being sold at Tower records. I don't know if this models of video game tie ins work but I believe if comics need to survive. Tie ins with more pop culture needs to work.

If really feels the comic industry is just doing the same tried and true things. This self canabilization events. That just forces fanboys to spend more and more rather than pulling a Nintendo and going after the rest of the population out there.

 

[Captain Craig]

I started this with news of what they are doing to the Batman satellite titles. I just saw the thread where DC plans to kill Bruce Wayne.
I also have run across the updated direct dealer sales of Amazing Spiderman.
Bad stories, Reboots and Restarts along with crazy price hikes are killing the medium.

Amazing Spiderman since the deal with the devil.
PRE-BND:
01/07 Amazing Spider-Man #537 123,160
02/07 Amazing Spider-Man #538 145,435
03/07 Amazing Spider-Man #539 155,980
05/07 Amazing Spider-Man #540 119,662
06/07 Amazing Spider-Man #541 108,284
07/07 Amazing Spider-Man #542 105,715
08/07 Amazing Spider-Man #543 106,485
09/07 Amazing Spider-Man #544 150,788
12/07 Amazing Spider-Man #545 124,481
POST-BND:
1/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #546 - 127,958
1/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #547 - 101,213
1/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #548 - 97,959
2/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #549 - 101,112
2/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #550 - 90,874
2/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #551 - 88,084
3/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #552 - 89,835
3/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #553 - 82,648
3/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #554 - 81,072
4/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #555 - 86,902 (Wolverine)
4/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #556 - 78,458
4/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #557 - 77,057
5/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #558 - 76,966
5/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #559 - 74,206
5/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #560 - 74,012
6/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #561 - 72,372
6/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #562 - 71,409
6/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #563 - 70,792
7/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #564 - 68,882
7/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #565 - 69,182 (Daredevil)
7/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #566 - 68,912
8/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #567 - 68,130
8/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #568 - 93,395 - NWTD
8/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #569 - 77,950 - NWTD
9/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #570 - 82,479 - NWTD
9/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #571 - 73,682 - NWTD
9/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #572 - 75,164 - NWTD
10/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #573 - 82,550 - NWTD + "Colbert Bump"
10/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #574 - 69,069 (Flash Thompson, soldier)
10/08 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #575 - 68,013 (Hammerhead returns)

So much for the theory that Venom, Green Goblin and the Thunderbolts along with a revitalized Eddie Brock as Anti-Venom would bring and keep people reading the OMD version of ASM. The titles numbers are already quickly back to the pre-NWTD slumping numbers.

How long till ASM gets cancelled now?

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

I quit because my collection has been stolen Or part of it. I miss my GI Joe comics from the 90s.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

How long till ASM gets cancelled now?

I don't think it has so much to do with BND so much as the ridiculous printing schedule. It just comes out way too often, now. To buy the book, it's the equivalent of buying all of the monthly Spidey books from before the merge.

Hell, I prefer an unmarried Spidey, and I've been wanting it for years, but I'm having trouble keeping up.

 

[Captain Craig]

How long till ASM gets cancelled now?

I don't think it has so much to do with BND so much as the ridiculous printing schedule. It just comes out way too often, now. To buy the book, it's the equivalent of buying all of the monthly Spidey books from before the merge.

I'd counter that it does something, if not everything, to do with BND and Mephisto. They(Marvel, Tom Breveport/Joey Q) enjoyed saying that thrice monthly ASM was doing better than the 3 separte titles. That threshold is very close now which indicates its not the title(s) but the stories. ASM has very mediocore stories and uneven art. The Punisher art was horrid.

Hell, I prefer an unmarried Spidey, and I've been wanting it for years, but I'm having trouble keeping up.

While I like MJ and the married dynamic I, and many others if the Marvel Spidey threads are an indication, would've been fine with a natural and organic story that made Peter and MJ separate. Something wrong with divorcce?(rhetorical) I mean Peter is or was always meant to be relatable. Outside his uniqueness of having spider powers his relatability stemmed from his dorkiness, down trodden, nerdy, uneven resulsts with girls, job woes etc... and to have Mephisto step in and do the "unnormal" in a normal situation that breaks with and flys in the face of "great power, great responsibility" is what stings.

This is vastly different from other supernatural or paranormal things that Spidey has been involved with. The line may seem thin but this wasn't Spidey but Peter being involved in the Mephisto dealing and MJ also. Aunt May and Aunt Anna would be ashamed of their nephew and niece for the actions they took. Uncle Ben would not approve.

Single Peter could be handled its the fact they mis-handled it so badly and then gave such sub-par stories after promising the second coming of Spidey that bites so hard.

 

[Tomato]

Thanks for the BND data Captain Craig. I always wanted to know what it was. I thought BND was stupid, childish and a slap to the face to everybody who invested all the time into that comics. I mean you have USM for a reason.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Either way, I can agree with you on that. The deal with Mephisto was a stupid way to go about it.

I used to think that divorce would darken the character too much, but it could have been handled well in the hands of the right writer. They would have to juggle it so that neither Pete or MJ is really at "fault," which isn't easy, but it could be done. And it darkens the character a whole lot less than dealing with Mephisto.