Comic Book Collecting.

[TemporalFlux]

I also just remembered where I got the Mary Jane whisper idea:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/01/21/what-did-mary-jane-watson-really-say-to-mephisto/

So not just speculation it seems.

 

[Hound of UIster]

It's extremely probable JMS hadn't originally planned it to be a permanent thing.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I thought the entire thing was forced on him.

 

[kirk55555]

Yeah, Joe Quesada hated the marriage, and he was in charge, so he made JMS do the story. Now, there are bad parts of the story that are all JMS's fault, but the idea of removing the marriage (and the whole deal with Mephisto, I think) was from Joe Quesada.

 

[TemporalFlux]

Yeah; JMS had set up a plot point early in his run where Loki owed Spider-man a favor. When "One More Day" hit, I expected the whole thing to come out of Loki shenanigans, but then Mephisto popped up and it was like wha?

I think Mephisto is definitely something that JMS didn't want and had shoved down his throat. Also, I don't think Peter ever cashed in that favor with Loki; it was just forgotten.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Was the specific choice of Mephisto Quesada's? I figured he would only care about the end result, not how it happened.

Just like the story "Sins Past" where Quesada wouldn't let JMS create kids between Peter and Gwen Stacy, but didn't go as far as to say "make Norman Osborn the father."

 

[Hound of UIster]

We don't know. But given his previous work with Kevin Smith on Daredevil and his editorialship of Priest's Black Panther, it seems he might have a fondness for the character.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I also just remembered where I got the Mary Jane whisper idea:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/01/21/what-did-mary-jane-watson-really-say-to-mephisto/

So not just speculation it seems.

Cool. Nice detective work. I still wish they could have found something better. I mean why even reveal peters identity if they knew they would have to go to such lengths to reverse it? It just seemed a waste and convoluted. Quesada really messed up.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

We don't know. But given his previous work with Kevin Smith on Daredevil and his editorialship of Priest's Black Panther, it seems he might have a fondness for the character.

I strongly suspect Mephisto's appearance in Guardian Devil was all Kevin Smith's idea. He's a huge DD fan and likely remembers Ann Nocenti's run. Considering the themes of religion playing out, I could see him coming up with something like that. BTW, that scene is one of my favorites in an otherwise very hit and miss storyline.

 

[Hound of UIster]

It just seemed a waste and convoluted. Quesada really messed up.

This is what Quesada wanted. It's the mark he wanted to leave like the whole non-smoking thing after his dad died of cancer. His entire editorial philosophy was to shake things up for the long term consequences be damned.

 

[TRON JA307020]

It just seemed a waste and convoluted. Quesada really messed up.

This is what Quesada wanted. It's the mark he wanted to leave like the whole non-smoking thing after his dad died of cancer. His entire editorial philosophy was to shake things up for the long term consequences be damned.

Yeah he wanted to leave his mark alright. I suspect he though he would be celebrated for his decisions. Quite the opposite.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Well, I think Marvel Knights was a success at least.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Well, I think Marvel Knights was a success at least.

I didn't read those. I was pretty pissed what he did to Spidey that I finally quit reading Marvels. These days I stick to Silver, Bronze and early modern age comics. I am not sure if I will ever return to present stories. They just don't seem to be as fun.

 

[theenglish]

The biggest thing about the Spider-Man retcon with Mephisto for me is that nothing else in the universe is changed. Surely this can't be true. Mary Jane must have had some influence on something in the 616 universe or she is truly a non-important character.

The hand-waving for the retcon is about as silly as the Sentinel's backstory, no?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Well, I think Marvel Knights was a success at least.

I didn't read those. I was pretty pissed what he did to Spidey that I finally quit reading Marvels. These days I stick to Silver, Bronze and early modern age comics. I am not sure if I will ever return to present stories. They just don't seem to be as fun.

It reinvigorated Daredevil. Starting from Kevin Smith's Guardian Devil all the way through much of Brian Bendis's run was under that monicker. Likewise, there was a cool little Inhumans run (Inhumans can never seem to achieve lasting success). Plus, Chris Priest's Black Panther run (which is probably the most acclaimed) was too. I should clarify that I'm not talking about any team up books - I know nothing about those - just the titles that went under that name.

ETA: Quesada also deserves credit for bringing on board David Mack, Mike Oeming, Brian Michael Bendis, Garth Ennis and Steve Dillon (along with people like Kevin Smith, who brought attention to Marvel).

 

[Hound of UIster]

Yes the success of Marvel Knights pretty much guaranteed his rise into the position of EiC of Marvel. The same for his use of new and fresh writers such as Millar, Bendis, Brubaker and Fraction. Spider-Man and OMD not withstanding, they were able to masssively revitalize Marvel and launched a second creative rebirth there.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Marvel had rules for how much it was allowed to pay everyone.

The better creatives had no monetary incentive to really try harder.

Marvel Knights was a rules shelter where more interesting compensation packages could be hammered out which were impossible at regular Marvel.

Kinda like when the US Army sometimes sends Blackwater into the jungle to kill everyone who looks poor.

Independent Contraction.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Yes the success of Marvel Knights pretty much guaranteed his rise into the position of EiC of Marvel. The same for his use of new and fresh writers such as Millar, Bendis, Brubaker and Fraction. Spider-Man and OMD not withstanding, they were able to masssively revitalize Marvel and launched a second creative rebirth there.

He may have revitalized Marvel for a while but he destroyed everything once Civil War began.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Well, that depends on what you mean by destroyed. I don't have numbers, but I suspect Civil War was a massive financial success based on the fact that they keep doing event stories.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Right. The revitalized Marvel only really stopped chugging along until around post-Siege/Heroic Age where you have the rise of really meaningless crossovers like Fear Itself/Age of Ultron/Infinity/Axis/Original Sin. The stuff from Disassembled/HoM/Civil War/Secret Invasion actually mattered.

Now it's really trying too hard to imitate the MCU at the cost of the creative talent.