College: Gender Studies (Feminism Discussion)

[Deranged Nasat]

I see many comments saying things along the lines of "I always thought of you as one of the most insightful, intelligent, well-meaning posters..." I appreciate that. Have you considered, though, that I'm still that same supposedly insightful, intelligent and well-meaning person (as opposed to, say, a raging misogynist) and that your difficulties reconciling your earlier idea of me with my supposed bigotry and logical errors is that I'm not bigoted and did not make logical errors? That the problem is your own perception of these issues - the very misconceptions I was trying to warn against and challenge when I posted the original links to someone about to potentially dive into the lies.

The videos of GirlWritesWhat are a far better introduction and explanation than any I can attempt here.

But if you'd rather ignore them, dismiss them and write me off as a misogynist and bigot due to my opposition to the ideology of feminism...then you are in error.

 

[Kelthaz]

Have you considered, though, that I'm still that same supposedly insightful, intelligent and well-meaning person (as opposed to, say, a raging misogynist) and that your difficulties reconciling your earlier idea of me with my supposed bigotry and logical errors is that I'm not bigoted and did not make logical errors?

The thought never crossed my mind.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I'm sure a guy can hold down a 9-5 job, be faithful to his wife, kiss his kids goodnight, pay his bills on time, help his elderly neighbor carry in her groceries, be well-liked by his friends and peers, and still go to KKK rallies on the weekends.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'm not going to post a gazillion links like DN but it seems my attention span deficits have meant I've never noticed that DN has been going on like this since 2009, just with less overt hostility (most of the time). Guess I should have paid more attention to the text walls. A search for posts by him with 'feminist' and/or 'feminism' in them turns up some disturbing stuff.

I'll just post two:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3622324&postcount=9

Truly disturbing ranting about how men are equally victims of domestic violence. The whole thread is an eye opener, climaxing in the big apology which really from my reading says "I am ashamed I said stuff that people don't like". Which apparently he has now gotten over. Really has nothing to do with the opinions though.


http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=5319619&postcount=52

Much more in depth revealing of how his marginalization in childhood led him to these views, plus lots more of the views themselves.

I'm posting this because.. I've realized that my assumption that this was all tied into DN having a particularly bad time and snapping is wrong. Apparently he's always been like this.

 

[sidious618]

I see many comments saying things along the lines of "I always thought of you as one of the most insightful, intelligent, well-meaning posters..." I appreciate that. Have you considered, though, that I'm still that same supposedly insightful, intelligent and well-meaning person (as opposed to, say, a raging misogynist) and that your difficulties reconciling your earlier idea of me with my supposed bigotry and logical errors is that I'm not bigoted and did not make logical errors? That the problem is your own perception of these issues - the very misconceptions I was trying to warn against and challenge when I posted the original links to someone about to potentially dive into the lies.

Because what you said was so ridiculous that no matter how much good will you've built up, no one is going to buy it. It'd be like if a poster who is beloved here started saying, "No, guys, the Holocaust wasn't really that bad." It doesn't matter how well liked they are; what they are staying is bullshit.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Let me show you what real hate looks like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W46iTOiFm1U

 

[Kestra]

"Hey guys, you were all so excited the last time I chose to reply to a well thought out post with a link to a long YouTube video, I thought I'd do it again! Bonus: It's by the same person that you've never heard of before!"

Yeah, totally constructive. Since you're not going to use your own words, just make a post and throw up the bloggers/websites you're super into and want people to read. It will save a lot of back and forth where people try talking to you and you don't actually respond with any content of your own.

 

[sojourner]

This thread reminds me of a quote from Justified:
"If you meet an asshole in the morning. You met an asshole. You meet assholes all day you’re the asshole."

 

[IndyJones]

This thread reminds me of a quote from Justified:
"If you meet an asshole in the morning. You met an asshole. You meet assholes all day you’re the asshole."

Probably my favorite line from the show, I use it *all the time* with all the assholes I have to deal with.

...

Oh.

...

Huh.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I am often the asshole.

But hey, I admit it.

 

[sidious618]

Let me show you what real hate looks like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W46iTOiFm1U

Think you can dig that hole any deeper?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Taking care of some business after discussing things in the BR.

really i can't see the downside in getting a qualification in a subject you find fascinating, so i reckon go for it.

and for the record, during the course of this thread derangednasat has made a lot of intrusive presumptions and attributed false strawman opinions to me that come across as intolerant and vindictive.

so i hope you permit me to call him a whiny little misogynist douchebag without giving me an infraction, but if you do i'm willing to accept it.

Infraction for flaming. Comments to PM.

Let me show you what real hate looks like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W46iTOiFm1U

Nasat, you have received a trolling infraction for a combination of derailing the OP's thread, repeatedly spamming with links instead of providing your own commentary, being unnecessarily hostile and unresponsive, and posting hateful, bigoted rhetoric. Comments to PM.

 

[Thestral]

The videos of GirlWritesWhat are a far better introduction and explanation than any I can attempt here.

Sorry, but we're not interested in YouTube videos or blog links. You've had several people reach out to you in good faith for an actual conversation and try and get what this all means to you - not to some random blogger - because you've been a generally-liked part of the community. And you're swatting them away, some of the kindest of us, from a misguided attempt to... what, be strong and tough? Be "a real man" - which you've claimed not to buy into?

And sorry, but it's like sidious said - you're getting cut a lot of slack because people have tended to like your posting, but the stuff you're saying (or rather not saying; the blather you're linking to) is just too much. Holocaust deniers, flat-earthers, alien abductees, all would get a similar reaction because it's just too much. So we can't just say "Oh this all fits together in one pretty little picture and we're the ones who have a problem." Plus of course you're not actually trying to discuss. Is the stuff teacake linked to still pretty much how you feel, albeit several years old?

I'm posting this because.. I've realized that my assumption that this was all tied into DN having a particularly bad time and snapping is wrong. Apparently he's always been like this.

Yeah, this is some pretty deep-seated and, hmm... confused stuff. And sad.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I consider myself to b a feminist and my reasons for being a feminist is because all through my life I have seen the inequality that women have had to put up with. For example

In the 1950s and 1960s In Tasmania (when I was a child) - women were forced to give up their public service jobs when they married - the exception to this was teachers and nurses.

Married women couldn't serve in the Armed Forces.

In the early 1970s when I was in high school girls were not allowed to study woodwork, metal work or technical drawing. We had to do home economics (i.e. cooking and sewing) instead.

In 1975 I applied for the first TV repair apprentiship offered in a Tasmania to a female. Up to then the only apprentiships that it was easy for a girl to get was in hairdressing.

In 1982 I had to get my husband's permission to have a tubal ligation despite me having it done because I had serious complications during my pregnancies and births.

In the 1980s women were offered jobs as drivers for our government run bus service for the first time. There were many men who objected to this say that they would refuse to board a bus being driven by a woman. A couple of years later there was the same sort of controversary about female pilots. And female jockeys as well.

Up to the 1990s in most places in the West, a man couldn't be charged with rape if his victim was his wife.

etc etc


It was the feminist movement that was fundamental in bringing around the changes that stop the above and many other practices. Though we have come along way in granting women equality, there is still quite a way to go.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ Exactly. Extremists and political whackos aside, that's what real Feminism is all about.

I still like to call it Women's Lib, though.

 

[TheGodBen]

I see many comments saying things along the lines of "I always thought of you as one of the most insightful, intelligent, well-meaning posters..." I appreciate that. Have you considered, though, that I'm still that same supposedly insightful, intelligent and well-meaning person (as opposed to, say, a raging misogynist) and that your difficulties reconciling your earlier idea of me with my supposed bigotry and logical errors is that I'm not bigoted and did not make logical errors? That the problem is your own perception of these issues - the very misconceptions I was trying to warn against and challenge when I posted the original links to someone about to potentially dive into the lies.

Step outside your mind for a moment and consider your responses in this thread. Your links and evidence are to blogs and websites of dubious origin that are clearly pushing an anti-feminist agenda. You write off academia and research-based studies as being hopelessly undermined by feminist dogma that permeates those fields. To be blunt, your responses are not of the sort expected from a rational, neutral observer, your responses are indicative of conspiracy theorist behaviour. Your responses are similar to those of global warming deniers, 9/11 truthers, and young Earth creationists. However you may come across when discussing other subjects, on this particular subject you are completely unpersuasive.

 

[Squiggy]

This thread is worse than Hitler.

 

[Captain_Nick]

This thread reminds me of a quote from Justified:
"If you meet an asshole in the morning. You met an asshole. You meet assholes all day you’re the asshole."

I like this. Should remind myself of it .. specially when I'm driving ...

 

[thestrangequark]

I came across this article over the weekend, and it's very good -- highly recommended reading for everyone in this thread: If I Admit That ‘Hating Men’ Is a Thing, Will You Stop Turning It Into a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

 

[Tora Ziyal]

^Fabulous article, TSQ!