Code of Honor - Racist?

[ManOnTheWave]

The base problem there was that early TNG was channeling the old TOS standard Planet Of People Who Need Correcting By Us.

Yes.

 

[Citizen Cook]

A planet where the leadership wasn't white, and the population wasn't white.

How racist.

In our own history men owned the land and women often married for financial security. I saw this episode as a reverse of that. Not as a racial slur.

 

[Squiggy]

^^^^
And then in season 2 we got the Planet of Accurate Irish Stereotypes in Up The Long Ladder.

FTFY

 

[Catarina]

sexist

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^^^^
And then in season 2 we got the Planet of Accurate Irish Stereotypes in Up The Long Ladder.

FTFY

That episode was written BY an Irishman (Maurice Hurley), isn't that right?

As for "Code of Honor", hell yeah it's racist. I'm whiter than the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man and even I can see that.

I wonder how its guest actors feel about doing that episode. TNG's crew sure didn't like it.

 

[Paradise City]

The Dublin born (O'Brien) Meaney objected to that Irish TNG episode. In fact they tuned it down because of his discomfort and it's still an in your face diddly-do-di-i parody.

I don't know if Hurley is Irish American and maybe it's an Irish American thing like when Kate Mulgrew cooperated with those awful Fair Haven episodes.

 

[hux]

Irish Americans.

Or as they're known in Ireland... Americans.

 

[stardream]

Irish Americans.

Or as they're known in Ireland... Americans.

I have a lot of Irish in me but if asked I tell people I have Irish ancestry. I never did that 'Irish-American' thing but then my people came with the 'first wave' of Irish immigration. There's a bit of a difference.

 

[Paradise City]

Irish Americans.

Or as they're known in Ireland... Americans.

Irish Americans are known in Ireland as Irish Americans.

They are a recognisable category and important stakeholders in Irish political life.

 

[Tracy Trek]

It was a clumsy, wrong-headed attempt to correct something that someone, somewhere saw as previous racial/cultural insensitivity in Star Trek: the fact that Kirk's Enterprise was forever voyaging to Weekly World Of White People.

The only real exception was "The Paradise Syndrome" AKA World Of Hollywood Indian Stereotypes. Then, of course, there were one or two where asians were used as stock villains.

In any event, TNG's first stab at righting that balance was thuddingly off-key and best forgotten.

Eventually TNG settled into casting alien populations the same way they would humans, with at least some non-white actors in the crowd wearing the same funny foreheads as the white folks. Given Trek's general tendencies toward stereotyping that's probably the best that could be asked for.

^
Yes, this has summed up what I thought at the time.

 

[hux]

They are a recognisable category and important stakeholders in Irish political life.

Hence why some politicians will humour them.

None of the Irish people I know think of them as anything other than American.

 

[Paradise City]

They are a recognisable category and important stakeholders in Irish political life.

Hence why some politicians will humour them.

None of the Irish people I know think of them as anything other than American.

Irish people living in Ireland are very aware of who Irish Americans are. Some may not want to admit or get put off by a strong American accent or are even suspicious of upsetting the cozy and unhealthy consensus that prevails in Ireland but Irish people are most certainly aware of Irish America for good or for ill. The Irish diaspora was instrumental in providing the resources and refuge for Irish republican activists and the diaspora remain a living and influential stakeholder in Irish political life. That's an inconvenient truth for some but it's a factor that nevertheless cannot be overstressed.

 

[hux]

Irish people living in Ireland are very aware of who Irish Americans are. Some may not want to admit or get put off by a strong American accent or are even suspicious of upsetting the cozy and unhealthy consensus that prevails in Ireland but Irish people are most certainly aware of Irish America for good or for ill.

Yup.

The Irish diaspora was instrumental in providing the resources and refuge for Irish republican activists and the diaspora remain a living and influential stakeholder in Irish political life. That's an inconvenient truth for some but it's a factor that nevertheless cannot be overstressed.

Nope.

They'll happily pat plastic paddies on the head and buy you a Guinness.

But you ain't Irish.

 

[Paradise City]

Irish people living in Ireland are very aware of who Irish Americans are. Some may not want to admit or get put off by a strong American accent or are even suspicious of upsetting the cozy and unhealthy consensus that prevails in Ireland but Irish people are most certainly aware of Irish America for good or for ill.

Yup.

The Irish diaspora was instrumental in providing the resources and refuge for Irish republican activists and the diaspora remain a living and influential stakeholder in Irish political life. That's an inconvenient truth for some but it's a factor that nevertheless cannot be overstressed.

Nope.

They'll happily pat plastic paddies on the head and buy you a Guinness.

But you ain't Irish.

Then you misunderstand Irish people. Btw, by agreeing with the first paragraph and disagreeing with my second, you contradict yourself.

 

[hux]

Irish people living in Ireland are very aware of who Irish Americans are. Some may not want to admit or get put off by a strong American accent or are even suspicious of upsetting the cozy and unhealthy consensus that prevails in Ireland but Irish people are most certainly aware of Irish America for good or for ill.

Yup.

The Irish diaspora was instrumental in providing the resources and refuge for Irish republican activists and the diaspora remain a living and influential stakeholder in Irish political life. That's an inconvenient truth for some but it's a factor that nevertheless cannot be overstressed.

Nope.

They'll happily pat plastic paddies on the head and buy you a Guinness.

But you ain't Irish.

Then you misunderstand Irish people. Btw, by agreeing with the first paragraph and disagreeing with my second, you contradict yourself.

Nope. I recognise that the Irish are aware of "Irish-Americans" and their desperate desire to be linked (however tenuously) to something green but the idea that these Americans play an important role in Irish cultural or political life is utter nonsense (not to mention patronising). You don't. You simply think you do.

Irish-American means American in exactly the same way that English-American means American.

 

[Paradise City]

Yup.



Nope.

They'll happily pat plastic paddies on the head and buy you a Guinness.

But you ain't Irish.

Then you misunderstand Irish people. Btw, by agreeing with the first paragraph and disagreeing with my second, you contradict yourself.

Nope. I recognise that the Irish are aware of "Irish-Americans" and their desperate need to be linked (however tenuously) to something green but the idea that Americans play an important role in Irish cultural or political life is utter nonsense (not to mention patronising). You don't.

Again you contradict yourself. If they recognise them as Irish Americans, then they recognise them as Irish Americans.

Irish Americans play a critical role in Irish political and economic life as stakeholders in the GFA, as a force that influences our economy, as a contributor to major Irish political parties. That is a living and current reality.

You falling out with some dizzy Irish students from D4 or some prejudice arising from some other trivial experience in your personal life notwithstanding.

 

[hux]

Again you contradict yourself. If they recognise them as Irish Americans, then they recognise them as Irish Americans.

Still nope.

The Irish recognise that these Americans see themselves as Irish. But they (the Irish) don't.

Irish Americans play a critical role in Irish political and economic life as stakeholders in the GFA, as a force that influences our economy, as a contributor to major Irish political parties. That is a living and current reality.

They also recognise the critical role the British played in the GFA... Don't make em Irish-Brits though, mate.

You falling out with some dizzy Irish students from D4 or some prejudice arising from some other trivial experience in your personal life notwithstanding.

What? Come again? Baking powder?

 

[Paradise City]

Again you contradict yourself. If they recognise them as Irish Americans, then they recognise them as Irish Americans.

Still nope.


The Irish recognise that these Americans see themselves as Irish. But they (the Irish) don't.

Irish Americans play a critical role in Irish political and economic life as stakeholders in the GFA, as a force that influences our economy, as a contributor to major Irish political parties. That is a living and current reality.

They also recognise the critical role the British played in the GFA... Don't make em Irish-Brits though, mate.

You falling out with some dizzy Irish students from D4 or some prejudice arising from some other trivial experience in your personal life notwithstanding.

What?

1) You are in contradiction. You're own words condemn you.

2) Irish people recognise Irish Americans as being part of the Irish diaspora.

This is the reality. You're uncanny ability to read the inner mental states of Irish people is sending you false signals this time.

 

[hux]

1) You are in contradiction. You're own words condemn you.

2) Irish people recognise Irish Americans as being part of the Irish diaspora.

This is the reality. You're uncanny ability to read the inner mental states of Irish people is sending you false signals this time.

1) Nope.
2) Wasn't the issue.
3) Irish-Americans are Americans.

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

Oh boys!?!?! I think this is about enough.