Cloning Humans Could Start a Massive War.

[Argus Skyhawk]

But mammoths lived alongside dinosaurs.Explain that.

Nope. Dinosaurs became extinct around 65 million years ago. Mammoths came into existence far more recently and only died out thousands--not millions--of years ago.

Even if they had lived at the same time, it would not indicate they were related. How many living things exist on the Earth today that are not closely related to us?

 

[Silvercrest]

But mammoths lived alongside dinosaurs.Explain that.

Nope. Dinosaurs became extinct around 65 million years ago. Mammoths came into existence far more recently and only died out thousands--not millions--of years ago.

Sorry, that can't be true. It contradicts the canon of "The Flintstones."

 

[Myasishchev]

As a scientific, non-Hitler-related question, that's a matter of telomere snapping and potentially fixable, though, right?

Last week, I interviewed for a Postdoc position in a lab that does a lot of cloning. I asked the guy, an expert in cloning, about the telomere thing, and he told me that it's not a problem. It turns out that when the donor nucleus is injected into the egg (which is full of telomerase), the telomeres are rebuilt back to their proper length. A clone's telomeres are of normal length.

The whole shortened telomere thing was something that scientists thought might be an issue and the general public picked up on it before anyone did the actual experiments to see if it was a problem.

Fascinating. I suppose that makes sense: telomerase is expressed in stem cells, iirc. Which is what a clone would presumably be in the early stages?

Now, how far are we from telomerase expression in adult organisms?

(If these questions and comments sound stupid, it's what I get for getting a liberal arts degree and going to law school instead of doing undergrad and post-grad in biology. I was considering doing it early on, too, after taking my required science courses and discovering I rather enjoyed bio. Roads not taken, I guess.)

 

[farmkid]

Fascinating. I suppose that makes sense: telomerase is expressed in stem cells, iirc. Which is what a clone would presumably be in the early stages?

Now, how far are we from telomerase expression in adult organisms?

(If these questions and comments sound stupid, it's what I get for getting a liberal arts degree and going to law school instead of doing undergrad and post-grad in biology. I was considering doing it early on, too, after taking my required science courses and discovering I rather enjoyed bio. Roads not taken, I guess.)

I don't know. It wouldn't be hard to do it by making a transgenic mouse or something, but in an already-grown adult it would be much more difficult. That would require some sort of gene therapy approach which is much further off. I'm not sure it's a good idea anyway. If I had to guess, I would expect that expressing telomerase in adult cells would increase the risk of cancer considerably. It might cause other problems too.

 

[PurpleBuddha]

But mammoths lived alongside dinosaurs.Explain that.

Nope. Dinosaurs became extinct around 65 million years ago. Mammoths came into existence far more recently and only died out thousands--not millions--of years ago.

Even if they had lived at the same time, it would not indicate they were related. How many living things exist on the Earth today that are not closely related to us?

Today, I live alongside spiders and ants.

 

[iguana_tonante]

But mammoths lived alongside dinosaurs.Explain that.

A vat of dna was a figurative expression which could enable millions of hitlars could be cloined from it instead of cloning a clone which would cause errors according to above poster.

Evil people are evil that is why they are evil.nurture and nature both are intertwined in a implioet relationship.Look at iraks sodham he was a soldier who became increasingly evil and brutish until we freed irak and restored democracy.

A blank hitler will be predisposed to evil but not be evil without evil elements turning him evil.

I think my head just exploded. Well, at least it feels like it.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Clones of Hitler would hardly be allowed to walk out the front door.
The sorrounding Nazis would start brain washing immediately to get him to start hating jews and blacks and in Aryan supramacy.

He would be shown his true destiny as a Nazi leader from the film archives.

He would be put up a figure head with other Nazi running behind him.

Sounds very Kampf. "Chase me, chase me."

I don't understand the mirth about dinosaurs dna being used to create mammoths.Mammoths are dinosaur related.

You know a bigger danger is that Mel Brooks will be inspired to produce a new musical based on "One Million Years BC" with a chorus line from Barney and friends -- "turn, turn,kick, turn".

 

[USS KG5]

But mammoths lived alongside dinosaurs.Explain that.

As others have pointed out - they didn't. Crikey do your research dude even Wikipedia gets this kind of thing right.

Evil people are evil that is why they are evil.nurture and nature both are intertwined in a implioet relationship.Look at iraks sodham he was a soldier who became increasingly evil and brutish until we freed irak and restored democracy.

Iraq's Saddam was one of the good guys in the 80s when he kept Iran in check, it is all a matter of perspective. His truly evil acts, like gassing the Kurds, were a result of complex events. It just is not as simple as you claim.

Besides how do you know, if he had been raised in a different environment, Saddam might not have been a reasonable guy?

A blank hitler will be predisposed to evil but not be evil without evil elements turning him evil.

That much I can agree with, at least to an extent.

 

[Maurice]

But mammoths lived alongside dinosaurs.Explain that.

I would, but I can't seem to keep a straight face.

 

[Silvercrest]

It's just like in "The Flintstones", I tell you!

 

[ex nihilo]

Evil people are evil that is why they are evil.

Brain and brain! What is brain?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

This is silly, Hitler was the way he was because of his life experiences and education and nothing to do with genetics. There's no reason a cloned Hitler couldn't become the nicest feller on the planet or become an idiot who doesn't know how to wipe his own ass.

I think the only thing genetic is possible mental illness, but that doesn't mean genocidal leader of a powerful industrialized nation.

 

[PurpleBuddha]

This is silly, Hitler was the way he was because of his life experiences and education and nothing to do with genetics. There's no reason a cloned Hitler couldn't become the nicest feller on the planet or become an idiot who doesn't know how to wipe his own ass.

I think the only thing genetic is possible mental illness, but that doesn't mean genocidal leader of a powerful industrialized nation.

Really? What about heart conditions, other illnesses, eye color, hair type, skin color, etc. All those are genetic traits that are passed on. Further, some people genetically have a brain that fires better than others. And I am not only talking in extreme cases of mental retardation, but all the way up and down the scale. As well, some people genetically have more athletic muscles and body structure as well as better natural hand eye coordination, and so on.
Certainly these things need to be developed, but some people could never be a world class painter regardless of environment and some people who can be, never will precisely because of environment. The same is true with mathematics and weight lifting.

The fact is, we are a combination of both.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Wah? I'm talking about the fact that Hitler's family had a history of mental illness (something the SS tried to hide after they discovered this). Mental illness could have contributed towards some of his actions late in the war. I was saying that it wouldn't cause him to be exactly the way he was without the factors surrounding him (he wasn't the only German to believe in theories of the master race, etc), it was something he learned from his environment. But mental illness could be something in Hitler clones.

 

[PurpleBuddha]

Okay. I thought you were saying that mental illness was the only genetic thing that would matter and all the rest would be up to the enviornment.

 

[USS KG5]

Wah? I'm talking about the fact that Hitler's family had a history of mental illness (something the SS tried to hide after they discovered this). Mental illness could have contributed towards some of his actions late in the war. I was saying that it wouldn't cause him to be exactly the way he was without the factors surrounding him (he wasn't the only German to believe in theories of the master race, etc), it was something he learned from his environment. But mental illness could be something in Hitler clones.

The interesting bit is whether characteristics Hitler possessed (Megalomania, prejudice, lack of perspective, paranoia) are passed genetically in any way, how much are these qualities nature and how much nurture?

It seems even with our now massive knowledge of the human genome we know very little about this stuff.

 

[chardman]

I don't understand the mirth about dinosaurs dna being used to create mammoths.Mammoths are dinosaur related.

Have you ever bothered to actually read a science book?
A real science book?

 

[Loqutus]

Not a massive war, a sad one. Most people dread war because of the sanctity of life. Start cloning people and the value of human life becomes nil.

 

[kv1at3485]

Specifically, they dread the irrevocable loss of consciousness, the end of thought. Cloning doesn't change that. It's just another method of producing empty vessels.

And even if you can "xerox" a mind into a clone over and over, so what? Now you multiple instances at first but which will all diverge into unique individuals over time. The legal shenanigans this causes is an interesting topic in science fiction (as opposed to primitivist luddite tech fantasy that rarely gets beyond caveman-level preconceptions.)

 

[Myasishchev]

My identical twin is an unauthorized user of my proprietary genetic code. I demand he be exterminated.