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Clone Wars S2

I should point out that by Episode 3, Padme and the Jedi both realize Palpatine is up to no good. Padme asks Anakin if he thinks they might be on the wrong side (he says she sounds like a separatist), and the Jedi are ready to overthrow Palpatine if he doesn't lay down his emergency powers when Grievous is killed. Regardless, I think you're completely right in saying the Mandalore trilogy should have had them looking closer at Palpatine from now on, and they should really be playing the process of everyone getting increasingly wary of him.

Clone Wars is partially about exploring characters and the universe rather than advancing the plot directly. For example, they've featured Kit Fisto, Aayla Secura, Luminara Unduli, Ki-Adi-Mundi and Plo Koon, all of whom die unceremoniously in RotS within one ten minute span. OTOH, We see Mon Mothma, Padme, and Bail Organa pulling together to resist the war, an alliance that will eventually turn into the Rebellion. So while their attempts at peace-making are pointless, their increasing realization of that fact is not. Hopefully at the end of the show we'll see them talking about forming the Alliance directly. With Clone Rights, it's really about it saying something about who the Jedi are, and what the Republic is, that nobody is saying a word about these guys.

Yet they don't object to the Jedi and clones fighting a bloody war for them. A

*coughs* until next episode, anyway.

Random anonymous sex would be okay, but only if you stuck to a strict one-night-stand rule, because going back to the same person again is right back to "attachment" now isn't it? Otherwise, why bother with someone more than once?

Not necessarily. People IRL have sex buddies. As for a pure no-attachment marriage, no, there isn't much of a point. But I don't think they toe the line that fanatically. We saw for example, when Ahsoka and Barriss were trapped and Anakin was freaking out, Luminara gave him a lecture but didn't threaten to throw him out of Order like Obi-wan did in AotC when Anakin was about to jump out of the gunship and abandon the pursuit of Dooku to save Padme. I don't think they have a problem unless a Jedi's attachments interfere with his or her's greater obligations. So they could marry, but their marriage would just have to be a secondary priority that couldn't be allowed to distract them from their jobs, and as Obi-wan pointed out, Jedi don't usually stay in one place for long so they'd almost never get to see their spouses (Anakin hadn't seen Padme for months before the start of RotS). Within the Order it's worse, since they operate militarily they need to be willing to order one another to die if the need arises. Given all that, and the risk that one might lose control of their attachment, I don't find it surprising many Jedi would choose to remain single, even if there isn't a specific "no marriage" or "no sex" rule.
 
I should point out that by Episode 3, Padme and the Jedi both realize Palpatine is up to no good.
Is there any wiggle room to allow this realization to happen midway through Clone Wars? I'd really love to see everyone start targetting Palps, like, now. If Anakin is the last to get clued in, I guess I can buy that. He strikes me as fairly uninterested in politics, due to being more the action-oriented type. He may rant a bit on the topic, but he hasn't done it in the series so far, which leads me to believe it really doesn't occupy his mind very much.

Also, how many years does Clone Wars cover? Two or three, something like that?

As for the sex buddies discussion ;) the Jedi might be worried that having their people hitting the bars for anonymous sex might de-mystify them something awful. They do need to kind of hold themselves above the common herd to maintain the mystique that justifies holding such great and unelected power. The best approach would be for the Jedi to encourage casual sex only with other Jedi, so that they can maintain the image of being intimidating, untouchable warrior monks to the general population.

However, I gotta admit, I'd love to see Obi-Wan and Anakin march into some sleazy dive on Coruscant and loudly inquire who's up for some fun? :rommie: I can just envision the riot that would break out. Maybe not true so much for the fish-head guys, but those two would have no problem attracting more attention than they could handle. Which might cause yet more trouble for the Jedi, namely motivating them to get their hot butts back to the battle lines once they've found something better to do with their time.
 
Padme's saying they're on the wrong side and Ki-Adi-Mundi just flat saying they need to throw him out suggests they've known for some time he's not likely to give up power. They were not saying so to his face, however Palpatine was aware they were plotting against him. So I would not only say there's wiggle room, we should expect to see tension between the groups rise as time goes on, leading to the council asking Anakin to spy on Palpatine in RotS. I'm guessing they don't want to start moving in an episode 3 direction until they're sure how long they want the show to run for.

The clone wars lasted three years, according to EU materials. However, I think just about everything about this time frame is up in the air until the show ends. We've already seen previews with a slightly older looking Ahsoka, so make of that what you will.

Good point about Jedi public image, though perhaps it's less bar-crawling and more rock star? For all we know Anakin and Obi-wan can't set foot outside the temple without being mobbed by hordes of ravenous fangirls. I also seem to remember from the Republic Commando books that Aayla Secura is "close" to her clone commander...got to wonder how common that is :p
 
I'm guessing they don't want to start moving in an episode 3 direction until they're sure how long they want the show to run for.
I thought the plan was for the show to run for five years? If they can do more than that, I'd like them to trot thru ROTS in maybe half a season. I have a feeling it would come off much better with this Anakin (and I'd still like him to be onto Palps more than he lets on, but holding back because he's not sure whether he'd prefer to ally with Palps).

Then they should continue right on past ROTS, assuming Ahsoka is a survivor of the Jedi purge because we'll need at least one familiar main character (and who says Obi-Wan is stuck all that time on Tattoine either). Keep on going, right through the OT and beyond. I don't see any reason to stop - the hardest material is what they're doing right now, due to the continuity constraints.

I also seem to remember from the Republic Commando books that Aayla Secura is "close" to her clone commander...got to wonder how common that is
I'd expect battlefield friendships that blossom into something more would be by far the biggest single problem the Jedi face in squelching attachments. ;)
 
I thought the plan was for the show to run for five years?

Originally. During the run up to season 3 they started saying their plan is to keep making it until Lucas says stop. I'd like it if they kept going as well, however the live action show is supposed to take place between trilogies so that's probably off limits. They were supposed to start making that this year, but obviously they didn't. Not sure why. Clone Wars at least proves how good the PT era can be when Lucas isn't writing it.

I'd expect battlefield friendships that blossom into something more would be by far the biggest single problem the Jedi face in squelching attachments. ;)

I'd say she did pretty well, given when order 66 comes down he shoots her in the back. They do love twisting the knife, these writers :p
 
However, I gotta admit, I'd love to see Obi-Wan and Anakin march into some sleazy dive on Coruscant and loudly inquire who's up for some fun? :rommie: I can just envision the riot that would break out. Maybe not true so much for the fish-head guys, but those two would have no problem attracting more attention than they could handle. Which might cause yet more trouble for the Jedi, namely motivating them to get their hot butts back to the battle lines once they've found something better to do with their time.
*Obi-Wan waves his hand* "You want to have casual, anonymous sex tonight."

Yeah, that might not go over to well. :p
 
Just wait till the Jedi sex tapes hit the black market.

Master Yoda will not be pleased. :rommie:

however the live action show is supposed to take place between trilogies so that's probably off limits. They were supposed to start making that this year, but obviously they didn't. Not sure why.
Uh oh, you haven't heard - that's dead. :eek: Lucas can't figure out how to make a live-action TV show within a TV budget. I guess he doesn't realize that when your story and characters are good enough, the audience will forgive a certain lack of pricey eye candy and explosions, but if his attitude is that $$$ = good, then maybe it's for the best that he just dropped the whole idea.

I hope the plan is to keep going in the Clone Wars style, with the same writing/producing/animation/voice acting team. I was initially put off by the animation style, but now I've gotten used to it. They've got a good thing going and as Yoda always says, "If broken it is not, fix it do not." :p
 
Temis the Vorta said:
Just wait till the Jedi sex tapes hit the black market.

Master Yoda will not be pleased.

...I'm guessing you don't know about Yaddle then. Seems like every Jedi had that special someone...except maybe Kit Fisto :p

Uh oh, you haven't heard - that's dead. :eek: Lucas can't figure out how to make a live-action TV show within a TV budget. I guess he doesn't realize that when your story and characters are good enough, the audience will forgive a certain lack of pricey eye candy and explosions, but if his attitude is that $$$ = good, then maybe it's for the best that he just dropped the whole idea.

I remember hearing they were having funding issues, but I didn't think it was that bad given how much money Lucas is raking in from Clone Wars/merchandising. Damn. More likely it's because Lucas refuses to be beholden to a network (or studio), he likes having complete creative control so he pays for everything himself. Mixed blessing in more than one way, obviously.

Incidentally, did you see the CG animated Han/Chewie short someone produced a couple months back?
 
Temis the Vorta said:
Just wait till the Jedi sex tapes hit the black market.

Master Yoda will not be pleased.

...I'm guessing you don't know about Yaddle then.

Well, there's one sex tape I won't be watching. :rommie:

Incidentally, did you see the CG animated Han/Chewie short someone produced a couple months back?
Yes, that was awesome! :D

More reviews...

Senate Murders
- So this is the episode where someone objects to the clones, except it's to object that the clones cost too much money to make. :rommie: I found it hilariously cold of Padme to complain about sentient beings used as cannon fodder on the basis that they are too expensive and are frakking up diplomacy - wow - anyway, I just have to accept that these people have different value systems than I'm used to and that to them, a clone is only a step up from a droid. I also like that the Kaminoians are depicted as being creepy, because what they're doing is creepy.

It's nice to see Padme, Mon Mothma and Bail Organa joining forces, but still annoying that their goals are still off-target. And why would clone production limit diplomatic initiatives? It can be good to beef up your military before negotiations - it gives you a stronger hand. I interpret the situation that there are factions in the Senate using clone production as an excuse not to enter into diplomacy, but in that case, it's the factions and not the clones that are the real issue.

Padme's et al need to take a more direct approach, determine why their opponents don't think diplomacy will be useful. And since in some cases the honest answer will be "because we don't want to stop the war, dumbass," that approach will get them closer to uncovering the truth than dancing around the issue.

Stories about political shenanigans in the Senate are doomed to be frustrating and off-putting until the good guys start to get onto the right scent. I'm hopeful that that might start occurring soon.

Cat and Mouse - Nice self-contained battle episode and a good example of what I thought the movies could have used, something that convincingly and engagingly demonstrates why Anakin is a legendary hero, because of his aggressive and risk-taking traits.

On to another topic - neither Clone Wars so far, or the PT spends much time building up the mythos of the Force, Jedi mystical practices, what the dark side actually is, why anyone would join it, etc. Before the movies came out, I was expecting something that explores more of the history of the Force, something like a visit to a creepy ancient temple suffused with the essence of the dark side or Anakin going on a journey to discover where he came from originally and what the frak that stuff about him "bringing balance to the Force" actually means, if anything.

We don't really need a lot of this stuff, but especially given the abundant screen time available in a TV series, an episode or two on this topic would add a lot to the universe-building and would be an interesting change of pace.
 
On to another topic - neither Clone Wars so far, or the PT spends much time building up the mythos of the Force, Jedi mystical practices, what the dark side actually is, why anyone would join it, etc. Before the movies came out, I was expecting something that explores more of the history of the Force, something like a visit to a creepy ancient temple suffused with the essence of the dark side or Anakin going on a journey to discover where he came from originally and what the frak that stuff about him "bringing balance to the Force" actually means, if anything.

We don't really need a lot of this stuff, but especially given the abundant screen time available in a TV series, an episode or two on this topic would add a lot to the universe-building and would be an interesting change of pace.
From what I've heard, some of those questions are supposed to be addressed in some upcoming Season 3 episodes. Season 3's promotional tagline has been "Secrets Revealed" and while, thus far, few secrets have actually been revealed, everything I've heard promises to explore the nature of the Force, including the training of a dark Force user. Starwars.com even says, "For the first time ever, Sith training will be explored - and with it, truths about the very nature of the dark side itself!" That episode is scheduled to air 1/7/2011.
 
Wow! Sounds great! :D I better finish up with S2 and burn thru my saved up S3 eps so I can catch up to the regular review threads in time for the good stuff.

I've been very impressed at how grown-up this series is, which amazes me, since the Neilsens ratings track the 6-11 and 9-14 age groups (it's doing very well btw). If that's how they make their money, then any effort spent on grown-up issues like Obi-Wan and Satine's regret about their past or Senate politics is "wasted" effort. I guess at the worst, the grown-up stuff isn't alienating the kids.

Here's another topic they could start exploring more: put Anakin and Palps in more scenes together. So far, they haven't had a lot to do with each other, except for some passing scenes, such as Anakin putting more reverence into his greeting of Palps than you'd expect from the guy, and Palps' complement about Anakin's tenacity delivered via Bail Organa.

I can't imagine that Anakin thinks much of Palps, other than perhaps a generalized respect for the office of Chancellor, since all he's seeing is Palps' pose of being a genial but ineffective old coot. Anakin respects strength but maybe he'd be well inclined towards Palps, for starters for not being on the Jedi Council and therefore not always telling him what to do. Not appearing to be the kind of guy who would ever tell him what to do would also be appealing to Anakin.

For the sake of the future plotline, I feel like the writers need to be more convincing that Anakin genuinely likes Palps long before he realizes the truth. Palps obviously has his eye on Anakin already as being potentially useful to his overall plan, but what's going to lure Anakin in?

One idea: if Palps can appeal to him to help fend off his many treasonous enemies in the Senate who are trying to sabotage the war effort. Palps needs to be very careful here, so as not to disrupt the illusion of being a hapless old guy who is barely holding things together. He needs to get Anakin to think "this guy needs my help or it'll be total chaos."

Even better if the Jedi Council is starting to have their suspicions about Palps, which Palps can use: "Even the Jedi are turning against me! Woe is me!" Anakin will definitely feel sympathy for anyone who is having trouble with the overly rigid and pigheaded Jedi Council.

Palps needs to set himself up as the one guy who knows what needs to be done (more war! Anakin will love that) and is beset by shortsighted or traitorous enemies on all sides, in a desperate fight that is almost certainly doomed to failure, but will be amazingly glorious if, against all odds, they succeed. That is exactly the type of situation that Anakin will not be able to resist jumping into.
 
Temis, can I just say; the more I read of your Star Wars threads, the more I wish you had been involved in making it. :lol: I've never really been a fan of Star Wars, but you seem determined to offer possibilities that would very likely change my mind about that. At the very least, it seems to my obviously biased view that you have a lot more respect for the Star Wars universe than the people actually involved. :lol:
 
Well I'm less oriented towards selling toys to kids, that's for sure. ;)

And I think I've found that Yoda sex tape we were discussing...on the Cartoon Network site, of all places. Can anyone on teh internets not know what "slash" means? :rommie:

yoda_slash
 
Padme's et al need to take a more direct approach, determine why their opponents don't think diplomacy will be useful. And since in some cases the honest answer will be "because we don't want to stop the war, dumbass," that approach will get them closer to uncovering the truth than dancing around the issue.

Well, the Kaminoan Senator (Halle Burtoni, geddit?) and cronies don't want to stop the war because it's making them filthy rich. If they aren't getting their money, it's in their interests to stop the war before it reaches their homefront.

I can't imagine that Anakin thinks much of Palps, other than perhaps a generalized respect for the office of Chancellor, since all he's seeing is Palps' pose of being a genial but ineffective old coot. Anakin respects strength but maybe he'd be well inclined towards Palps, for starters for not being on the Jedi Council and therefore not always telling him what to do. Not appearing to be the kind of guy who would ever tell him what to do would also be appealing to Anakin.

Palpatine has apparently been pouring honey in Anakin's ears since he was a kid. In AotC Palpatine told Anakin he saw him becoming the "greatest of all Jedi" and Ep 3 makes it pretty clear Palps has become Anakin's confidant (he told Palpatine about when he butchered the sand people). Palps has REALLY got his hooks in Anakin. Palpatine has a pretty prominent role in some episodes late in season 2, you'll see some of his interaction with Anakin then.

Palpatine does use the idea that the Jedi are taking over as an argument to sway Anakin in RotS. After the Jedi ask Anakin to spy on Palpatine, Palps guesses it, then says he knows the Jedi are plotting against him (which they were) and says he needs Anakin's help. There's a school of thought that says he deliberately lost the fight with Mace Windu so he would look helpless before the big bad Jedi about to kill him without trial.

As for the sith training episodes, there's one other thing about them you should know...oh hell just watch the trailer: http://starwars.com/video/view/001148.html
 
After the Jedi ask Anakin to spy on Palpatine, Palps guesses it, then says he knows the Jedi are plotting against him (which they were) and says he needs Anakin's help.
I've forgotten a lot of the details about the movies, but I do recall I didn't really find the Palps-Anakin stuff very convincing, probably because PT Anakin didn't seem like the kind of guy who would give a flip about anyone but himself (and Padme, but that was a bizarre unhealthy obsession that just reinforced his self-centeredness and obliviousness to everyone else.)

Clone Wars Anakin seems like he'd genuinely want to come to the aid of poor kindly old Palps, who was being treated so terribly unfairly. So scenes along those lines would no doubt come across better now. A lot of elements from the movies are coming across better now, confirming that a lot of the movies' problems were in execution rather than concept.
As for the sith training episodes, there's one other thing about them you should know...oh hell just watch the trailer: http://starwars.com/video/view/001148.html

Looks like some cool visuals, but
do you mean it's a big deal that Darth Maul is back? I never found him an interesting character - is there anything to him, really, other than he's really really mean and has crazy-ass makeup? It looks like a nice change of pace, anyway.
 
A lot of elements from the movies are coming across better now, confirming that a lot of the movies' problems were in execution rather than concept.

"Good concept bad execution" is pretty much the story of the prequels IMO, from "let's show anakin's fall to the dark side" to "let's have a four-lightsaber wielding cyborg general." It's why I read/play/watch EU stuff all the time, they frequently do things with the characters and the universe that are a lot more interesting, and you've seen how they can actually make the existing films better.

There's a novel and comic series about Maul's background, but basically he's as one-dimensional as Grievous. The character in the video is Maul's brother, who strangely enough seems to be exactly the same as him, albeit bigger. Oh and his name is "Savage Opress." I'm sure it'll look amazing but I'm pretty dubious about him being any more than a Sith wrecking ball.

Also "Yoda Battle Slash" has got to be the most unfortunate name for a child-targeted product this side of Erector.
 
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FWIW, I signed up for free passes to a sneak peek of the Sith training episode at the beginning of December. I'll let folks know if it was any good or just a Darth Maul rehash.
 
Even a Sith wrecking ball could have its merits. Maul was never anything more than a big shrug for me, but maybe with more build-up, his little brother will come off more fearsomely?
 
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