Clean Slate: Uniforms!

[CuttingEdge100]

You know, a federation non-dress uniform with navy blue and white or light gray would be a good starting point.

As before, I think the uniforms the cadets/enlisted had would be a good starting point.

- URL: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/stmagazine/twok-uniforms6.jpg

Basically imagine the white/off-white area on the uniform you extend to cover the whole length from the shoulders right down to the ankles. I would also delete the small white areas that extend over the shoulder (if you look at the white/off-white area on the uniform, most of it covers the inboard shoulder and chest, with a small section covering the outboard shoulder -- the shoulder joint area)

Now imagine the white area was a dark-blue and the red area was a white or light-gray color?

At least that's the basic gist of it. The basic color-scheme and pattern.

The idea I'm thinking of wouldn't have a belt on it. It would instead be a modern jumpsuit with some similarities to the concept Nerys Myk posted (Post 9 this thread).

For officers I was thinking it would probably make the most sense for a non-dress uniform to place the rank insignia on small tags on the shoulder (not unlike TMP).

I'm not exactly sure what insignia to put down (i.e bars or an actual insignia like our current military uses). Any ideas?


I'd love to hear feedback


CuttingEdge100

 

[CuttingEdge100]

I'd have to agree with other members in the issue regarding pockets -- they are essential for any duty uniform, and in my opinion, even a dress uniform should have them.


CuttingEdge100

 

[Blue Squadron]

Just for CuttingEdge100, here are some pics of a customised uniform and rank scheme, based on the TMP uniforms but using his preferences of navy blue and white with red detailing.

Normally, I like my Trek unadulterated but this idea created such a striking visual image that I just had to follow-up on it and see what it might look like as a fully worked-through uniform scheme - so here it is!

The rank insignia use TMP-style detailing but the overall form follows contemporary naval pattern. Note, however, that not all the ranks are directly lifted from current USN use - this is deliberate not a mistake! The chest insignia are based on the TWoK versions but with some minor changes. The formal uniforms use the collar style from Kirk's TMP admiral uniform for the officer version and the collar from the TMP class A style for the enlisted version (but also adds a standing collar, like the one worn by spock under his class A, just because this looks more formal!).

Officer insignia are cuff stripes and also on shoulder straps, as per TMP. Chiefs and junior enlisted rates have left sleeve insignia (the design being inspired by O'Brien's small collar insignia from DS9 but enlarged and given a more USN-look) but only Chiefs have shoulder straps. I've also included some Warrant Officer grades but these have never really been part of Star Trek so I can take or leave them - I've included them for completeness and also because this is a huge departure from established Trek, so what the heck...

I've also tagged on some shirt-sleeves variants; a class A with the navy pants (inc. red stripe) and a khaki class B. These use shoulder straps for officers and reduced size sleeve insignia for other ranks (in plain colors), although shoulder straps for Chiefs would be an alternative option. The shirt deign is based on the TMP class B option and the pants/boots are TWoK-style.

Enjoy...

 

[sojourner]

^Very nice, but I gotta say it....

GEEAAAAAAHHHH!!! ZOMBIE THREAD!!! RUN!!!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Why would a dolphin crewmember need a uniform?

 

[Sector 7]

Blue Squadron, this is great work!! My least favorite are the Class B uniforms. I quite like all the others. I always thought that if the Class A uniforms from TMP were not such a tapered cut, however, they would have looked much better. Perhaps a straight tunic hem instead of the shirt-tail, as well.

IMO, Chief O'Brien was a Chief Warrant Officer. He was subordinate to officers, yet in command of enlisted personnel. The warrant officers I have known always had O'Brien's "I'm just enlisted, not one of those officer types" attitude.

 

[C.E. Evans]

O'Brien's rank has often been the subject of much debate, but his final rank insignia in DS9 matched the most with a senior chief petty officer in the U.S. Navy, which would have made him a noncom nonetheless.

 

[Blue Squadron]

Why would a dolphin crewmember need a uniform?

Yes, I wondered that too...!

As for zombie thread, well, yes maybe but I just stumbled across it when I was looking for something else and it sparked a bit of a big burst of creativity so I figured I might as well share the outcome with those who had provided the inspiration!

 

[Blue Squadron]

I merely said that the style of O'Brien's later *insignia* in DS9 was the inspiration for the shape of the NCO chevrons here - I'm not commenting at all on his *actual* rank or position, save to say that the character suffered badly from inconsistent decision-making by the producers and writers which gave rise to some seriously dubious retconning in the middle of the series...! I don't want to discuss it further here though as it's been done to death elsewhere and remains a whole Pandora's Box that I don't want to open in a thread about uniform designs!

I did try straightening the bottom hem of the tops to make them look more like uniform jackets but it didn't quite look right (maybe I'm just too used to the appearance of Kirk's TMP uniform). I'll have another go at doing it and post the pics here in a little while when I'm done!

 

[CorporalClegg]

[SNIP]

Excellent work! Those might be the best SF uniforms I've ever seen.

Well thought out, practical, completely inclusive, and they actually look like uniforms!

Well done!

 

[Blue Squadron]

OK, squared-off the bottom hem of the jackets and modified the Class B design too. Have also included "Service Dress Gray" that is more formal than the class B much but less ornate than the full Dress Blue. (In contemporary USN terms, I guess this is vaguely similar to the Dress/Service Dress Blue and the Service Dress Khaki).

I imagine the "Grays" being the general day-to-day workwear (either coats or shirts, as required) with the "Blues" being reserved for formal / HQ use and the Blue Class B perhaps being day-to-day HQ wear. Maybe at some point I'll have time to do some sort of working overalls too...

Dress Blue

Blue Class B

Service Dress Gray

Gray Class B

 

[Cepstrum]

There's been a lot of interesting ideas and excellent concept illustration tossed around. To address a few statements, designs, and the OP, here's what I'd like:

• no combadges. Return to just a SF logo. We can today and it's been done in Trek before ("Workforce") implant tiny, subdermal, communication devices. Why risk having it in a communicator that is easily lost or taken? The same is true for monitoring bio signs. Use a small implant instead of putting a monitor on the uniform.

• I'd like to see more differentiation in the various areas. I think engineers, security, medical, science, command, and operations should be readily distinguishable. That probably is *not* how modern naval or marine uniforms are, but this isn't a story about the USN or USMC.

One of you had examples with the more distinct colors for the various service types, but one rule of visual design was broken: they need to be identifiable under monochromatic or lower color perception cases, such as low lighting or, more importantly, for colorblind or partially colorblind people (like me). There must be something in addition to hue, whether it's a symbol or a color-scale that is both differentiated by hue *and* luminosity/intensity/shade (it depends on what kind of color space you're working with, such as RGB. I know it can work, for I've published papers with huge, pseudocolored images in which I used such a scale. It looks well in color or grayscale.)

• I like the idea of flexibility and comfort for some of the roles. There's no reason why the CO and XO should be wearing the same type of outfit as, say, a maintenance engineer making repairs. Give the latter the option of wearing more flexible wear, such as less form fitting and without the long sleeves and dress shoes.

• about pockets: they *have* been shown. B'Elanna, during her RL pregancy, work a jacket with a utility pouch in which she kept several tools.

• I'm not sure if fatigues or camo would ever work. I think too many people would either be turned off by it or else not think they're watching Trek. After all, none of the ship officers or crew are trained to be soldiers. They probably just take a single course in learning basics, such as the proper handling of phasers. Even those in security seem to have but rudimentary quasi-police type training.

• about armor: other races such as Klingons and Carfassians wear it, but it does them little good. I think disruptors and phasers are just too powerful for an effective defense — unless it was some sort of personal shield/force field. Other types would appear menacing and only protect from shrapnel etc. And that rarely seems to be a problem. Most just get shot.

• sorry to give so many contrary opinions. It's just my two cents. You guys have great ideas. The main thing I'd like would be more clear differences in service branches. I don't like how technicians, engineers, security, and operations all wear the same uniform. It seems to be a uniform for everything that isn't command, science, or medical.

• oh, and I doubt crew would be very happy to wear such snug, form-fitting, and rather hot looking uniforms. The newest kind had not only long pants, a heavy and tight tunic, but also a tight turtleneck sweater and vest underneath. Seems uncomfortable.

 

[SSgt Baloo]

Why would a dolphin crewmember need a uniform?

Maybe so you can tell him apart from all the other dolphin crewmembers?

 

[Blue Squadron]

Hey - thanks for joining in! All contributions are greatly valued; I can't really speak for the OP or the early contributors to the thread but I seem to be responsible for its recent resurrection (!).

I agree with much of what you say - there's no reason at all why an organization like Starfleet should be limited to just one type of uniform. I should just clarify that the stuff I have posted above is very much a design exercise in response to some descriptions given in much earlier posts; this is not necessarily what I would personally come up with if I was to go right back to basics and try a "clean slate" approach to Starfleet uniform design, as per the suggestion in the OP.

With any SF movie or TV show it's always worth considering the sometimes competing requirements of what are just filming costumes for the show versus the "real" requirements of the "uniforms" within the fictional universe. Producers and directors want to achieve a distinctive "look" with which an audience can readily identify and which stays within budget. Equally, they way costumes have to be constructed with current technology and fabrics does not necessarily imply that that is how they are "meant" to be "in-universe".

In 40-50 minutes of screen time over 20-25 weeks per year we're probably never going to see a huge range of uniform variants. Perhaps the greatest range of different Starfleet uniforms (including specialist clothing and equipment for specific roles) was seen in TMP. Robert Fletcher who designed the costumes for both TMP and the later updated look for TWoK is on record as saying that he wanted the crew to have different uniforms available for different requirements rather than just being stuck with a single style of black pants and primary colored tops!

That said, although they were not frequently used, even the original series (with its limited budgets and time constraints) did sometimes manage to use a variety of specialist clothing beyond the standard duty uniform of the era.

I'd definitely like to develop further uniform variants based on nice reuirements!

 

[SVD]

Another endorsement of your proposed uniforms!

However, as was said by Cepstrum, there needs to be a way, in cases of gray scale vison and low light environments, to tell an ensign that works in engineering from the one working as a nurse in the daily dress.

 

[Sector 7]

• no combadges. Return to just a SF logo. We can today and it's been done in Trek before ("Workforce") implant tiny, subdermal, communication devices. Why risk having it in a communicator that is easily lost or taken? The same is true for monitoring bio signs. Use a small implant instead of putting a monitor on the uniform.

In universe, many would have problems with such an implant, either for religious, personal or scientific reasons. For TV, having someone actually tap a combadge or open a communicator is a visual cue to the viewer that the character is talking to someone offscreen.

• I'd like to see more differentiation in the various areas. I think engineers, security, medical, science, command, and operations should be readily distinguishable. That probably is *not* how modern naval or marine uniforms are, but this isn't a story about the USN or USMC.

I prefer the corollary to USN for StarFleet. The ranks are parallel, so it makes sense to parallel uniform designs.

• I like the idea of flexibility and comfort for some of the roles. There's no reason why the CO and XO should be wearing the same type of outfit as, say, a maintenance engineer making repairs. Give the latter the option of wearing more flexible wear, such as less form fitting and without the long sleeves and dress shoes.

I agree with you on this point. Blue Squadron's new designs address this pretty well, but using a full-cut design over tapered would be better, both visually and practically.

• about pockets: they *have* been shown. B'Elanna, during her RL pregancy, work a jacket with a utility pouch in which she kept several tools.

This should be a given requirement. Even my dress uniform had pockets (USN.)

 

[SVD]

Perfect solutions for ready identification of departments that is in keeping with military traditions, a patch below the Starfleet insignia.

They'd have to be simple and, assuming we just have Earth culture as a reference I present:

A red cross for medical
A kite shield for security
Sextant for navigational personal
Stylized nacell/warp core for engineering

etc...

 

[Cepstrum]

Hey - thanks for joining in! All contributions are greatly valued; I can't really speak for the OP or the early contributors to the thread but I seem to be responsible for its recent resurrection (!).

I agree with much of what you say - there's no reason at all why an organization like Starfleet should be limited to just one type of uniform. I should just clarify that the stuff I have posted above is very much a design exercise in response to some descriptions given in much earlier posts; this is not necessarily what I would personally come up with if I was to go right back to basics and try a "clean slate" approach to Starfleet uniform design, as per the suggestion in the OP.

With any SF movie or TV show it's always worth considering the sometimes competing requirements of what are just filming costumes for the show versus the "real" requirements of the "uniforms" within the fictional universe. Producers and directors want to achieve a distinctive "look" with which an audience can readily identify and which stays within budget. Equally, they way costumes have to be constructed with current technology and fabrics does not necessarily imply that that is how they are "meant" to be "in-universe".

In 40-50 minutes of screen time over 20-25 weeks per year we're probably never going to see a huge range of uniform variants. Perhaps the greatest range of different Starfleet uniforms (including specialist clothing and equipment for specific roles) was seen in TMP. Robert Fletcher who designed the costumes for both TMP and the later updated look for TWoK is on record as saying that he wanted the crew to have different uniforms available for different requirements rather than just being stuck with a single style of black pants and primary colored tops!

That said, although they were not frequently used, even the original series (with its limited budgets and time constraints) did sometimes manage to use a variety of specialist clothing beyond the standard duty uniform of the era.

I'd definitely like to develop further uniform variants based on nice reuirements!

Thanks for the welcome!

You're a terrific designer; I wasn't singling out your hypothetical uniforms but some others a while back that had colors that I couldn't easily distinguish.



And I completely agree that the principal criterion in a Trek uniform design is recognizability/consistency. They want people to quickly and easily identify a "look" with Trek. It's different from, say Stargate in which they usually wore standard military fatigues (and used real guns).

If Trek got too complicated with its uniforms, it probably wouldn't turn people off or confuse them, but it *would* lose the distinction of most people knowing the essentials of what is a Trek uniform. It's a brand.

 

[Cepstrum]

Perfect solutions for ready identification of departments that is in keeping with military traditions, a patch below the Starfleet insignia.

They'd have to be simple and, assuming we just have Earth culture as a reference I present:

A red cross for medical
A kite shield for security
Sextant for navigational personal
Stylized nacell/warp core for engineering

etc...

I like that idea. They'd have to be very simple shapes to make them standout at a distance, unlike the military patches units wear on their upper arms. Those are often intricate but can afford to be, for they are usually seen closeup and don't make a huge difference other than serving as a logo (ie, you're not going to fire at someone by mistaking his unit patch/logo for another one. It's not like the 101st airborne is at war with the 82nd airborne!)

Not being a military guy myself (though I've worked for the Office of Naval Research and Naval Research Lab), I don't know how large or easily identifiable these different service-type patches are (eg, for medical, technicians, security/police). They'd *have* to be pretty big and basic for a Trek uniform, though.

 

[Cepstrum]

• no combadges. Return to just a SF logo. We can today and it's been done in Trek before ("Workforce") implant tiny, subdermal, communication devices. Why risk having it in a communicator that is easily lost or taken? The same is true for monitoring bio signs. Use a small implant instead of putting a monitor on the uniform.

In universe, many would have problems with such an implant, either for religious, personal or scientific reasons. For TV, having someone actually tap a combadge or open a communicator is a visual cue to the viewer that the character is talking to someone offscreen.

Do you really think they'd have a problem with this? They've already shown implantable communicators (eg, in "Workforce") and even implantable BMI's (eg, in "Endgame"). None of the Starfleet people seemed to object. And it'd make communications, bio-monitoring, and location/transporters much easier than a removable combadge.

Even today we use crude implantable BMI's to regulate tremors caused by brain movement disorders (as well as the common pacemakers to regulate the heart).

They could still press a visible button to activate communications, such as their SF patch, for the audience's sake.