City on the Edge of Forever

[Winterwind]

^^^ Sorry JustKate, but I still think Kirk is a macho hunk.

So too my girlfriend. She's not a sci-fi fan by any stretch but I've managed to get her to watch some of the newer Doctor Who and Trek shows. Getting her to watch the classics of both is almost like pulling teeth but...

The first time I got her to watch some classic Trek, first season of course, I start at the beginning, when Shatner came on screen I laughed because her response was "Ooooh. Who's he? He's so handsome!" I replied, "William Shatner". She said "Who?" so I said "Denny Crane" to which she said "Him? But... he's so young... so hot!"

 

[Gary7]

It's one of my favorites, definitely in my personal Top 10 TOS.

Although it's not at all "space action" oriented, as I tend to favor, it's a fantastic story that is brilliantly written and well acted overall. It's a great and unique incarnation of time travel. There are of course some issues with it... but they pale in comparison to what was achieved.

If I could pick any gripe to air, it would be McCoy. "Murders! Assassins!" I found that whole drug induced mindset to be out of place. I would have much rather seen McCoy do a paranoia thing about being trapped and needing to get away instead. And then when we see him on the planet, he's much calmer. He takes his time, watching the landing party, then makes a break for the Guardian when the time is right. Too premeditated. I'd rather it have been that he circles back to find the Guardian displaying scenes and then he feverishly without hesitation bolts forward and leaps through the gate.

 

[Maurice]

I've always had a problem with the logic at the beginning of City, in both Ellison's first draft and the aired episode. The setup for the catalyst (Beckwith/McCoy) leaping through feels very illogical and forced in both versions. Beckwith seems insane to beam down to an alien and unknown planet in order to escape, as there's zero indication that the planet is even inhabitable. Panic? Maybe. It seems forced. Likewise, it seems awfully convenient that insano-Bones has the presence of mind to cold walk into the transporter, knock out the guy AND operate the transporter.

The more I think about this episode the more I'm convinced that the reasons we've all heard for its being rewritten are bunk. I've long ago done homework on the veracity of the "too expensive" story, and a lot of the other justifications for the rewrite seem to me to be just that: justifications. For instance, even if Roddenberry et al had a problem with a Starfleet officer being as bad as Beckwith, the simpler solution would have been to make Beckwith one of those passengers-of-the-week/visiting specialist. My guess is the real reason Beckwith was cut was because of the cost of another guest star AND the want to use more of the main cast rather than some supposedly high-minded idea about Starfleet goody-twoshoes-ness.

Finally, what strikes me is that Inside Star Trek discusses how Roddenberry rewrote scripts in order to get supplementary payment (a practice no longer allowed), which leads one to wonder how much of the City rewrites stemmed from motivation to get some extra cash as opposed to the needs to rewrite the story to make it filmable or more Star Trek-y.

 

[Winterwind]

Knowing what we do about Roddenberry, my guess is it was all about the money.

 

[JustKate]

^^^ Sorry JustKate, but I still think Kirk is a macho hunk.

That's OK. Many people do. But not - do forgive my insistence here - everybody. Spock is sooooooo much hotter. But, you know, if we all liked the same things etc. etc. etc.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

TOS era Shatner.. is one gorgeous man. When I finally got TOS on DVD it shocked me, he really was as HOT as my teenage self had thought! In fact he was hotter!!

 

[JustKate]

^ Nice photo find, Teacake, but...I remain unmoved. I don't really go for blonds, for one thing - I like 'em tall and dark. But if we all liked the same things etc. etc. etc.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

heh, I don't care if anyone else likes him. I like very few actors in a fancrush way, actually he and Kate might be the only ones. I tend to like characters that way, not actors.

 

[scotpens]

Nice photo find, Teacake, but...I remain unmoved. I don't really go for blonds, for one thing - I like 'em tall and dark.

Shatner’s hair was light brown at the time — the part that was really his, anyway.

 

[Winterwind]

I'm straight and I've got to say that the Shat is a damned good looking man in that picture. I used to think I was but young Shatner beats me. Bastard!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

For instance, even if Roddenberry et al had a problem with a Starfleet officer being as bad as Beckwith, the simpler solution would have been to make Beckwith one of those passengers-of-the-week/visiting specialist. My guess is the real reason Beckwith was cut was because of the cost of another guest star AND the want to use more of the main cast rather than some supposedly high-minded idea about Starfleet goody-twoshoes-ness.

This is a really good point.

Finally, what strikes me is that Inside Star Trek discusses how Roddenberry rewrote scripts in order to get supplementary payment (a practice no longer allowed), which leads one to wonder how much of the City rewrites stemmed from motivation to get some extra cash as opposed to the needs to rewrite the story to make it filmable or more Star Trek-y.

Ouch! If correct, this theory would certainly justify Harlan Ellison's level of anger, if he knew it was done. However, if Mr. Ellison knew this was done, why didn't he mention it himself in one of his criticisms of Roddenberry? No proof? Too much plausible deniability?

 

[Maurice]

For instance, even if Roddenberry et al had a problem with a Starfleet officer being as bad as Beckwith, the simpler solution would have been to make Beckwith one of those passengers-of-the-week/visiting specialist. My guess is the real reason Beckwith was cut was because of the cost of another guest star AND the want to use more of the main cast rather than some supposedly high-minded idea about Starfleet goody-twoshoes-ness.

This is a really good point.

Finally, what strikes me is that Inside Star Trek discusses how Roddenberry rewrote scripts in order to get supplementary payment (a practice no longer allowed), which leads one to wonder how much of the City rewrites stemmed from motivation to get some extra cash as opposed to the needs to rewrite the story to make it filmable or more Star Trek-y.

Ouch! If correct, this theory would certainly justify Harlan Ellison's level of anger, if he knew it was done. However, if Mr. Ellison knew this was done, why didn't he mention it himself in one of his criticisms of Roddenberry? No proof? Too much plausible deniability?

I'm not saying it WAS the case, but it's perfectly within established and documented Roddenberry behavior. Even if it were, Ellison could only suspect that was the case, as I doubt Roddenberry advertised such shenanigans.

The most likely reality, based on what little I know, is that some of the staff had issues with the script, and, given deadlines, they probably just decided to fix it themselves, and when each writer got it, they added their own touches until the script got changed into what got filmed. The later rationalizations are probably just those people feeling like they needed to justify what they'd done.

 

[Photoman15]

Well, since it was Ellison's name on the screen, no one else got credit or paid for any of the rewrites, so that theory is shot. Ellison's script had to be made to fit the STAR TREK "formula" (and I cringe typing that) and that of a 60's TV show. Stars are the heroes.

It's been said Gene wanted to protect the integrity of StarFleet officers. Maybe that's how he put it in hindsight, but at the time, I believe he really didn't want Enterprise crew being antagonistically evil, as Beckwith is/was. Marla, (since someone else pointed out her as a bad seed in SF) was not evil. She was a good crew member who got corrupted (infatuated) as was Captain Tracey and all the other "bad" Captains. They started their missions on the side of good but something happened (something that creates our story) to them/their ship to turn them. Beckwith, on the other hand, scene 1, had him lording over his hooked junkie, and we further find out he hooked a whole planet on the stuff too.

 

[T'Girl]

"The City On The Edge Of Forever" is the best single hour of Star Trek ever, hands down. There's not a real close second, and this is largely and primarily due to Ellison's essential storyline and characters.

While The City On The Edge Of Forever is one of the better TOS episodes, saying it is the best single hour of Star Trek ever would be a stretch. Balance of Terror is a better story and one of the few TOS episode to contain multiple story lines (City only had one), the main plot of the Romulans, the relationship of Angela Martine and Robert Tomlinson, and the problem between Stile and Spock. The three stories were nicely woven together. City (in comparison) had a single linear story line that was really a bit simplistic.

Still, you got to love a love story.

Spock is sooooooo much hotter.

Ahh, so both you and Dax concur on that point.

They are the infamous and illegal Jillkan dream-narcotics, the Jewels of Sound. They are faceted solids, but not stone, more like a hardened jelly that burns pulsingly with an inner light: gold, blue, crimson, orange.

Sounds, in on screen appearance, like Harry Mudd's venus drug. After they purchased Ellison's ideas, maybe the Star Trek staff recycled this concept.

 

[plynch]

Devil in the Dark is the single best hour of Trek. Really. "City" is great, I'll give it that.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'm a Journey to Babel fan myself.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

While The City On The Edge Of Forever is one of the better TOS episodes, saying it is the best single hour of Star Trek ever would be a stretch.

Not in the least.

Balance of Terror is a better story and one of the few TOS episode to contain multiple story lines (City only had one), the main plot of the Romulans, the relationship of Angela Martine and Robert Tomlinson, and the problem between Stile and Spock. The three stories were nicely woven together.

More complexity or close plotting is not equal to "better story," and the very derivative storyline of "Balance" is nowhere near as compelling as "City." There's no exaggeration or hyperbole at all in calling the latter the absolute best hour of Star Trek.

 

[MikeH92467]

City is remarkable achievement. I've always thought it amusing that such an acclaimed episode ended with so many people involved in the writing of it hating each other...

I agree to an extent with Dennis about Ellison's basic framework being strong enough to withstand the rewriting process, but I think dismissing Gene Coon, D.C. Fontana and even Roddenberry is a bit unfair. None of them are Ellison, but there aren't many people on that level to begin with.

 

[Maurice]

Well, since it was Ellison's name on the screen, no one else got credit or paid for any of the rewrites, so that theory is shot.

Reply:

HERB: ...Part of the salary and royalty paid to series "Creator-Executive Producers" covered some rewriting of stories and scripts. After I left the studio and moved to MGM, Gene's agents submitted bills directly to the Paramount Business Affairs Department for almost every story or rewrite he did. The payments ranged from $750 to over $3,000, at times even more than what the writer of a particular script was paid. It was like putting the fox in charge of the henhouse; it was Gene, himself, deciding what stories and scripts needed rewriting. And the more stories and scripts he rewrote, the more money he was paid. It's no wonder that almost all the Star Trek writers, at one time or another, were angered over his treatment of their scripts. At the time, even Bob Justman didn't know about Gene's additional "perks".

HERB: ...(Several years later, the Writer's Guild ruled that scriptwriters must be given the opportunity to do their own first rewrite and, if they chose not to do so, specifically forbare producers from rewriting a script without first consulting the writer.)

^^^The latter in reference to the 1st Season "the Naked Time".
So, yeah, Gene DID get paid for rewrites, WGA rules and credits aside.

 

[skylark14]

I agree with those who think this is the best episode ever. We get a lot to love here: time travel, McCoy’s life in jeopardy, the crew in jeopardy back on the Guardian planet if the timeline can’t be fixed [just imagine being the last one left waiting], a fleshed out love story with no flesh on display and very little physical contact, an eerie set for the Guardian, a nostalgic “streets of New York” set with appropriate mood music, some nice period clothing [I never thought Edith’s hairstyle fit. It always seemed very 60s to me. All my girlfriends were “teasing” their hair just that way.]

We get a lot of “cozy catastrophe” fun with Spock and Kirk stealing clothes together, becoming roomies, Kirk eating bologna, Spock sweeping up and serving coffee in a soup kitchen. There are also some of the best comic lines of the series. We get to see some of the Kirk/Spock “love” on display as Spock agonizes in his way about Kirk’s ability to do what has to be done. We get one of the best closing lines. Best of all, I get to watch Spock slowly tucking his shirt in his jeans for what seems like an eternity, which brings me to:

The Kirk as hunk debate. I always could see he was a handsome man, but he left me unmoved. I found almost any other male character more desirable, except perhaps Chekhov. This was true when the pre-adolescent hormones were first kicking in and has remained so for mumble-mumble years. Most of his seductions and love scenes made me want to laugh. No offense at all intended to the female Kirk fans as I know nothing is more subjective a thing than sex appeal. Some of the fictional characters I have found appealing are too absurd to even reveal here. Still, I found Kirk much more compelling very early on when he was married to the ship and had “no beach to walk on.” By the end of the show’s run, that beach was getting as crowded as spring break on Gideon. [I hope I'm not plagiarizing somebody here. Things get stuck in my head.] So the fact that this is my favorite show despite it being mostly Kirk-focused tells me just how well it was executed.

Others have mentioned this already, but the one thing that makes it less than perfect for me is the inconsistency of McCoy’s behavior, sometimes “Murderers! Assassins! but at other times using stealth. The hardest pill to swallow here is the fact that he makes it to the elevator on the bridge at all. Sure he’s drugged up, but he’s a very middle-aged, hard-drinking doctor surrounded by the young and fit bridge crew, including Spock with super-human strength and reflexes. I guess the idea is that he catches them off guard, but this entire beginning part keeps the show from being just about perfect. I also thought the bum disintegrating himself was unnecessary and distracting.