City on the Edge of Forever

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Two words disprove that: Marla McGivers.

She was not doing anything illegal as a crew member. She happened to become under the influence of Khan. Then she repented (saving Kirk) but decided to stay with Khan.

Now you're just making excuses.

In fact during the original Star Trek we saw bigots and fools of several varieties serve aboard the Enterprise. There was nothing "un-Star Trek" about Beckwith; the problems which resulted in the major rewrites to the script were structural and budgetary.

Hell, Starfleet was full of weirdoes, creeps and opportunists. Besides McGivers, who betrayed her oath and shipmates so she can have a historical Harlequin romance, there was Captain Ronald Tracey.

"One of the most experienced captains in Starfleet" who let his crew riot and die in orbit while he waited it out, safe and sound, on the planet's surface. He violated the sacred Prime Directive, murdering the "savages" with his "firebox." All of this because he wanted to the key to immortality ... and profit.

Compared to Tracey, Beckwith was a more upstanding member of Starfleet.

EDIT: And did I mention Rodenberry created Tracey.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Word.

 

[mudgilpackersde]

You are right green man.

 

[DFScott]

Okay, I'll admit that too, although I believe DC and GC were caretakers of the original vision of the show (and in many ways, Gene Coon really should be credited as co-creator of Trek as we know it).

I think had the producers of "City" stuck with the illicit drug angle, it would have clashed too severely with the underlying human message (and here, I use "human" the way Roddenberry tended to use it, to mean people with souls). I agree with the others in this thread who posit that the viewer wouldn't have cared about a drug overdose affecting a minor character, but for McCoy, we see it tear him open and reveal his inner fears. Then we watch him pick up the pieces and reconstruct himself layer by layer, which is absolutely beautiful coming from De Kelley, and wouldn't have mattered if it were a disposable redshirt instead.

DF "You're Not From Around Here...Say, Didn't You Die in Episode 5?" Scott

 

[Green Shirt]

I consider it one of the best, but i can't help thinking it would have been nice to see it filmed according to Harlan Ellison's original treatment.

The one thing that always irritated me about the story is that the landing party had no idea McCoy was both hiding right under their noses and running circles around them and still he went unnoticed by their tricorders.

Harlan's original treatment would not have worked as a Star Trek episode for a few reasons (Yes, I have and read his book about it all).

I agree completely. I should have made it clear in my statement that it would been better suited as a movie, rather than a TV episode.

 

[Search4]

Considering the time frame (1960s) this was an unbelievably complex and moving episode. And it features one of the best ever lines, hard to believe it made it on TV in that era: Kir's final sentence.

"Let's get the hell out of here."

Perfectly summarized how he won, and lost.

 

[scotpens]

. . . I think had the producers of "City" stuck with the illicit drug angle, it would have clashed too severely with the underlying human message (and here, I use "human" the way Roddenberry tended to use it, to mean people with souls).

And there was the anti-immigrant angle. When Kirk and Spock first appear in New York in 1930, Harlan Ellison had them being attacked by a mob identifying them as “foreigners” responsible for taking jobs from good Americans — presumably because of Spock’s “Chinese” appearance. That was one of the problems with Ellison’s script — trying to cram too many Grand Ideas into a one-hour television episode.

 

[DFScott]

scotpens: If Ellison were smarter (and certainly if you ask him, he'd respond that he couldn't possibly be), then he would have constructed several independent Trek scripts around each of those angles and submitted them separately. One could be the light trip fantastic, and the other could be about a landing party mistaken for foreigners to the native country where they landed. All of these might have led to interesting tales. But no, Ellison insisted on building his one story, and himself, into the indomitable giant, unyielding to the whim of editors and producers. Which is not the way any commercial creative medium works or ever will work.

DF "Author: How can you so confidently predict what will work in the future and what won't? Please answer in review." Scott

 

[Maurice]

Let's not forget that Ellison was hot-stuff in those days. Trek needed him more than he needed Trek. The idea that he'd submit multiple stories to the show is naive. He had no idea of the show would even last the season at the time he pitched City.

 

[duoduck]

The bigger annoyance for me was the whole McCoy-gets-freaked-out-on-drugs performance. Looks a little too cheesy for my taste, but that's probably all they could get away with on 1960's TV.

 

[scotpens]

The bigger annoyance for me was the whole McCoy-gets-freaked-out-on-drugs performance. Looks a little too cheesy for my taste, but that's probably all they could get away with on 1960's TV.

Since cordrazine is a fictitious drug, its effects are entirely up to imagination of the writer who created it. Apparently an overdose can cause delusional paranoia — which I thought DeForest Kelley played very well.

 

[Elder Knight]

...
That was one of the problems with Ellison’s script — trying to cram too many Grand Ideas into a one-hour television episode.

Exactly! I argued here before that -- had the series been developed just a few years later -- this would have been a two-hour season opener. But that wasnt done in 1966.

(Of course Ellison would have demanded a double payment, sent in some lawyers, and they'd have found a way to cut it to 52 minutes to avoid all of that.)

 

[ToddPence]

hard to believe it made it on TV in that era: Kir's final sentence.

By 1967, there had already been several instances of the word "Hell" being used as an epithet on American television. Despite this, I understand the network wanted to excise the final line.

 

[Maurice]

^^^I think people confuse "the network" with the network's "standards and practices" group. The latter would recommend changes to comply with often nebulous standards, but a producer could argue back and often win, sometimes appealing to the network execs above standards and practices.

Roddenberry made big deals about Star Trek's battles with the censors, but if you actually watch other shows that were Trek's contemporaries you find that others pushed much harder to say something, and got it on the air. The Smothers Brothers fought and often successfully got far more incendiary stuff on the air over on CBS. An early 1968 episode a sketch called "Bonanzarosa" (clicky here to see the sketch!) not only directly lampooned the competing program on NBC, it included the lines "grab Hass" and "wise Hass" (referring to Mama Cass playing a parody of Bonanza's "Hoss") which ended up being bleeped but not cut. In that sketch, the Cartwrong family is played by a mix of black and white performers (Pat Paulsen, Harry Belafonte, and Mama Cass). At one point, Tommy Smothers yanks the fake mustache off Belafonte, who pulls a gun and demands, "Put my hair back, white boy!" There's gag suggestions of homosexuality amongst the Cartwrongs, and a direct attack on the Neilsen ratings system.

And late in the sketch:

...and a twisted sight-gag climax in which former Los Angeles Rams football player Rosy Grier, dressed in drag, emerges from hiding—literally comes out of the closet—as the long missing Ma Cartwrong. Belafonte's classic reaction, "Oooh, you a big mother!" somehow made it past the censors without complaint, as did the part where Rosey, as Ma, picks up "son" Little Jerk , hugs him, and plants a kiss on his forehead.
...
Equally wonderful, and no less daring, was the final capper to the skit, when Rosey, as Ma, kisses the forehead of Mama Cass's Hass...Take away the gender-bending comedy play-acting of Rosey Grier playing a woman and Mama Cass playing her son, and what you have, on national television, is a white woman being kissed, albeit on the forehead, by a black man."

David Bianculli, Dangerously Funny, p. 199–200.​

Mind you, this was Sept. 29, 1968, eight weeks before Plato's Stepchildren and the supposedly first interracial kiss.​

 

[LeadHead]

City on the Edge of Forever has always been a very overrated episode in my view. It's okay, but many other episodes stand above it.

 

[indranee]

I'm pretty new to Star Trek and I'm watching TOS for the first time. I'm about 5 episodes into the 2nd season and my favourite episode so far has to be City on the Edge of Forever. I've always loved time travel stories and I think this one really emphasizes the concept of 'one life makes a difference'. It's been three days since I watched it and I'm still thinking about it.

I think one of the things that really makes the episode for me, is the final moment, when they come back through the portal and beam up. I think it's a really powerful moment, with Bones silent and just that one line from Kirk, and, unlike most of the episodes I've seen, there isn't a comedic final scene.

From a couple of things I've seen on other sites, it seems to be a pretty popular episode and regarded as one of the best, so I was wondering what people here thought of it.

Do you agree? What do you like about the episode? Do you disagree and, if so, why?

Welcome to Trek and I agree. It's still my all time favorite Trek ep and I've been watching Trek for the last 30+ years.

My favorite line from that ep is "It's necessary."

I use it often in my own life. It's an awesome line and Joan Collins delivered it perfectly.

 

[scotpens]

. . . Roddenberry made big deals about Star Trek's battles with the censors, but if you actually watch other shows that were Trek's contemporaries you find that others pushed much harder to say something, and got it on the air. The Smothers Brothers fought and often successfully got far more incendiary stuff on the air over on CBS.

Bolshoi!

 

[JustKate]

You know, I do like this episode, but I don't really understand why it is rated SO highly by so many Trek fans. The story is very interesting, and the drama and romance are fine, but the plot contrivances really distract me. At least they did last time I watched it. Plus, I don't tend to enjoy episodes in which Shatner has this many opportunities to emote. (A lot of women swoon with Shatner gets romantic, but all I can say is I'm not one of them.) I should be rewatching it soon, so I'll see if my opinion has changed.

I can say unreservedly, that I am not one of the women who swoon over romantic Shatner. In fact I tend to and shout something at the t.v.

Yaaayyyyy! I feel all validated!

OK, not really, but it's nice to know I'm not alone. I mean, I know I'm not, but sometimes when I run into one of those, you know, really extensive veins of Shat-love, I feel alone. So alone. So very alone.

I don't normally shout, but I definitely roll my eyes, and I often just go, you know, "Euw." I'm not a Kirk hater, exactly, because he does have his moments, but for me, NONE of those moments involve those times when he's supposed to be Our Romantic Hero.

 

[T'Girl]

^^^ Sorry JustKate, but I still think Kirk is a macho hunk.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

^^^I think people confuse "the network" with the network's "standards and practices" group. The latter would recommend changes to comply with often nebulous standards, but a producer could argue back and often win, sometimes appealing to the network execs above standards and practices.

Roddenberry made big deals about Star Trek's battles with the censors, but if you actually watch other shows that were Trek's contemporaries you find that others pushed much harder to say something, and got it on the air. The Smothers Brothers fought and often successfully got far more incendiary stuff on the air over on CBS. An early 1968 episode a sketch called "Bonanzarosa" (clicky here to see the sketch!) not only directly lampooned the competing program on NBC, it included the lines "grab Hass" and "wise Hass" (referring to Mama Cass playing a parody of Bonanza's "Hoss") which ended up being bleeped but not cut. In that sketch, the Cartwrong family is played by a mix of black and white performers (Pat Paulsen, Harry Belafonte, and Mama Cass). At one point, Tommy Smothers yanks the fake mustache off Belafonte, who pulls a gun and demands, "Put my hair back, white boy!" There's gag suggestions of homosexuality amongst the Cartwrongs, and a direct attack on the Neilsen ratings system.

And late in the sketch:

...and a twisted sight-gag climax in which former Los Angeles Rams football player Rosy Grier, dressed in drag, emerges from hiding—literally comes out of the closet—as the long missing Ma Cartwrong. Belafonte's classic reaction, "Oooh, you a big mother!" somehow made it past the censors without complaint, as did the part where Rosey, as Ma, picks up "son" Little Jerk , hugs him, and plants a kiss on his forehead.
...
Equally wonderful, and no less daring, was the final capper to the skit, when Rosey, as Ma, kisses the forehead of Mama Cass's Hass...Take away the gender-bending comedy play-acting of Rosey Grier playing a woman and Mama Cass playing her son, and what you have, on national television, is a white woman being kissed, albeit on the forehead, by a black man."

David Bianculli, Dangerously Funny, p. 199–200.​

Mind you, this was Sept. 29, 1968, eight weeks before Plato's Stepchildren and the supposedly first interracial kiss.​

As usual you put this into a far more realistic context than Trek fans are often wont to do. And you're not even old enough to remember how this stuff went down at the time.

I certainly remember, after having watched I Spy avidly, being somewhat bemused by later insistence by trekkies that Star Trek had been remarkably groundbreaking as far as minority representation on network television.

"The City On The Edge Of Forever" is the best single hour of Star Trek ever, hands down. There's not a real close second, and this is largely and primarily due to Ellison's essential storyline and characters. The best that can be said of most of the rewriting is that the core of the show was so strong that not even three or four staff writers could ruin it.