City on the Edge of Forever - 45th Anniversary

[Maurice]

Ellison's version is interesting, but I'm not crazy about the set-up. Not only is there an execution by firing squad (which seems both unnecessary given phaser technology, and awfully harsh considering what we've seen of Starfleet up to this point) but for some odd reason the Enterprise must find an uninhabited planet to conduct this savage ritual. The difficulty of finding a lifeless planet in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan strained credibility and it does so in Ellison's teleplay as well.

The final (heavily re-written by various parties) re-write improved upon this, but made things worse in many other areas.

Wasn't that only in the treatment? In the first draft script Beckwith kills LeBeque and flees via the transporter to the planet.

 

[Harvey]

I think you're right; I just conflated the two versions in my head.

 

[Eno]

I too watched this episode when 1st released. I sat with my family and was mesmerised by it. Never forgot the affect upon me. I love it as much today as then.

As for the script, I loved it then, just as today.

45 years eh? Wow, I'm old!

 

[Bones_McCoy21]

This is and forever shall be one of the best episodes ever to grace TV. I've always loved this episode the premiss is 'facinating'. BTW did anyone else ever notice that the noise the radio thing makes is the theme song?

 

[E-DUB]

For those who haven't read them, I'd highly reccommend the "Crucible" "Trilogy". (The reason that I put "trilogy" in quotes is that they're essentially three stand-alone novels.) They're all related to "city", and the first, featuring McCoy, is especially good.

 

[Amaris]

Good story, HGN2001. I’ve only met one person who watched the show when it originally aired

I guess us old folks are becoming somewhat of a rare breed!

I've also been blessed by the fact that though I've owned the episode on several different VHS tape issues, Laserdiscs and DVDs, I've never encountered, nor even heard, the replaced music score portions that so many have complained about over the years.

By the way, my avatar, for those who aren't aware, is the actual NBC-TV slide that they used on the weeks that STAR TREK was not presented because of a special program. It also appeared occasionally during a "technical difficulty" at the network while the show was on.

Harry

I was going to ask you that, since it looked like one of the old NBC promos. I LOVE that stuff. I was born in 1980, but when it comes to television, my heart belongs to the 1960s.

 

[Knight Templar]

I always thought "City" was way overrated.

I don't think it got massive attention from Star Trek fans until Joan Collins became such a major attraction on "Dynasty" in the 1980s.

 

[Amaris]

I always thought "City" was way overrated.

I don't think it got massive attention from Star Trek fans until Joan Collins became such a major attraction on "Dynasty" in the 1980s.

I loved COTEOF from the first moment I saw it. I was 4, and the year was 1984. Even considering that, the episode won a Hugo award in 1968 for Best Dramatic Presentation, which was well before Ms. Collins and Dynasty were to be on speaking terms.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I always thought "City" was way overrated.

I don't think it got massive attention from Star Trek fans until Joan Collins became such a major attraction on "Dynasty" in the 1980s.

Let's see.

An excellent, highly famous, and influential author.
A haunting story.
Thought-provoking analysis of 20th Century history.
A Hugo Award.
An excellent sequel in TAS.

No, nothing to see here, not even at the time.

Move along. Move along.

 

[Knight Templar]

I always thought "City" was way overrated.

I don't think it got massive attention from Star Trek fans until Joan Collins became such a major attraction on "Dynasty" in the 1980s.

I loved COTEOF from the first moment I saw it. I was 4, and the year was 1984. Even considering that, the episode won a Hugo award in 1968 for Best Dramatic Presentation, which was well before Ms. Collins and Dynasty were to be on speaking terms.

I was talking about how Star Trek fans regard the episode.

I doubt that most Trek fans get to vote for the Hugo Award.

I always thought "City" was way overrated.

I don't think it got massive attention from Star Trek fans until Joan Collins became such a major attraction on "Dynasty" in the 1980s.

Let's see.

An excellent, highly famous, and influential author.
A haunting story.
Thought-provoking analysis of 20th Century history.
A Hugo Award.
An excellent sequel in TAS.

No, nothing to see here, not even at the time.

Move along. Move along.

I never considered it to be an "analysis" of 20th century history at all.

The Hugo? See above.

Calling "Yesteryear" in The Animated Series a sequel to "City on the Edge of Forever" is ridiculous.

 

[Amaris]

I was talking about how Star Trek fans regard the episode.

I doubt that most Trek fans get to vote for the Hugo Award.

You are mistaken. According to the Hugo Awards FAQ:

The Hugo Awards, to give them their full title, are awards for excellence in the field of science fiction and fantasy. They were first awarded in 1953, and have been awarded every year since 1955. The awards are run by and voted on by fans.

Now, on to this, since I'm here...

I never considered it to be an "analysis" of 20th century history at all.

The Hugo? See above.

Calling "Yesteryear" in The Animated Series a sequel to "City on the Edge of Forever" is ridiculous.

Yesteryear (TAS)

Synopsis:

On stardate 5373.4, Captain Kirk and Spock return from a time-traveling research project they have been conducting with the use of the Guardian of Forever. When they emerge from the portal, they discover that no one onboard the Enterprise recognizes Spock. Spock is further surprised to see that an Andorian officer, Commander Thelin, has replaced him as first officer.

In the new timeline, history has recorded that Spock died at age 7 undergoing the Kahs-wan ordeal on Vulcan. However, Spock remembers that when he took the Kahs-wan, his life was saved by Selek - an adult relative - when a desert creature had attacked them. Realizing what must have happened, Spock knows he must go back through the time gate to his Vulcan childhood, and save the life of the child he was.

At first, this proceeds smoothly: Spock assumes the identity of Selek, and is welcomed into the home of Sarek and Amanda Grayson[note 2]. "Selek" journeys into the desert to find his younger self, and saves the boy. However, I Chaya - Spock's pet sehlat - has been gravely wounded. Young Spock is offered a choice: either I Chaya can be treated with medicines (but will live in obvious pain) or his pet can be allowed to die with dignity. Young Spock chooses the latter, and I Chaya dies peacefully.

By making this choice, Spock has thus chosen the Vulcan way of life - logic and emotional control - and his elder self, successful in repairing history, returns to the restored present day.

It's the same basic storyline as "City", and it includes the Guardian of Forever. So while it's not a direct sequel, it is directly inspired by COTEOF.

That's two for two.

 

[Kamdan]

I never considered it to be an "analysis" of 20th century history at all.

It is in regard to how one single event, if disrupted, can change everything.

 

[scotpens]

. . . Calling "Yesteryear" in The Animated Series a sequel to "City on the Edge of Forever" is ridiculous.

It's the same basic storyline as "City", and it includes the Guardian of Forever. So while it's not a direct sequel, it is directly inspired by COTEOF.

“Inspired by” and “sequel” are two different things. The events of the animated “Yesteryear” have no connection with the events of “COTEOF.” The only similarities are the re-appearance of the Guardian of Forever and the concept of restoring a timeline that’s been altered.

The animated episode “More Tribbles, More Troubles,” on the other hand, was a sequel to “The Trouble With Tribbles.”

I never considered it to be an "analysis" of 20th century history at all.

It is in regard to how one single event, if disrupted, can change everything.

That’s true of history in general, though. Or reality in general, for that matter.

 

[Amaris]

. . . Calling "Yesteryear" in The Animated Series a sequel to "City on the Edge of Forever" is ridiculous.

It's the same basic storyline as "City", and it includes the Guardian of Forever. So while it's not a direct sequel, it is directly inspired by COTEOF.

“Inspired by” and “sequel” are two different things. The events of the animated “Yesteryear” have no connection with the events of “COTEOF.” The only similarities are the re-appearance of the Guardian of Forever and the concept of restoring a timeline that’s been altered.

The animated episode “More Tribbles, More Troubles,” on the other hand, was a sequel to “The Trouble With Tribbles.”

You'll note my use of the words "so while it's not a direct sequel, it is directly inspired by COTEOF".

 

[Knight Templar]

I was talking about how Star Trek fans regard the episode.

I doubt that most Trek fans get to vote for the Hugo Award.

You are mistaken. According to the Hugo Awards FAQ:

The Hugo Awards, to give them their full title, are awards for excellence in the field of science fiction and fantasy. They were first awarded in 1953, and have been awarded every year since 1955. The awards are run by and voted on by fans.

Now, on to this, since I'm here...

I never considered it to be an "analysis" of 20th century history at all.

The Hugo? See above.

Calling "Yesteryear" in The Animated Series a sequel to "City on the Edge of Forever" is ridiculous.

Yesteryear (TAS)

Synopsis:

On stardate 5373.4, Captain Kirk and Spock return from a time-traveling research project they have been conducting with the use of the Guardian of Forever. When they emerge from the portal, they discover that no one onboard the Enterprise recognizes Spock. Spock is further surprised to see that an Andorian officer, Commander Thelin, has replaced him as first officer.

In the new timeline, history has recorded that Spock died at age 7 undergoing the Kahs-wan ordeal on Vulcan. However, Spock remembers that when he took the Kahs-wan, his life was saved by Selek - an adult relative - when a desert creature had attacked them. Realizing what must have happened, Spock knows he must go back through the time gate to his Vulcan childhood, and save the life of the child he was.

At first, this proceeds smoothly: Spock assumes the identity of Selek, and is welcomed into the home of Sarek and Amanda Grayson[note 2]. "Selek" journeys into the desert to find his younger self, and saves the boy. However, I Chaya - Spock's pet sehlat - has been gravely wounded. Young Spock is offered a choice: either I Chaya can be treated with medicines (but will live in obvious pain) or his pet can be allowed to die with dignity. Young Spock chooses the latter, and I Chaya dies peacefully.

By making this choice, Spock has thus chosen the Vulcan way of life - logic and emotional control - and his elder self, successful in repairing history, returns to the restored present day.

It's the same basic storyline as "City", and it includes the Guardian of Forever. So while it's not a direct sequel, it is directly inspired by COTEOF.

That's two for two.

Are the Hugo awards voted on by STAR TREK fans?

And you've already been proven wrong on the sequel issue.

You're 0 for 2.

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Enough of the snarky superiority. Let's drop it.

 

[Amaris]

I was talking about how Star Trek fans regard the episode.

I doubt that most Trek fans get to vote for the Hugo Award.

You are mistaken. According to the Hugo Awards FAQ:



Now, on to this, since I'm here...



Yesteryear (TAS)

Synopsis:

On stardate 5373.4, Captain Kirk and Spock return from a time-traveling research project they have been conducting with the use of the Guardian of Forever. When they emerge from the portal, they discover that no one onboard the Enterprise recognizes Spock. Spock is further surprised to see that an Andorian officer, Commander Thelin, has replaced him as first officer.

In the new timeline, history has recorded that Spock died at age 7 undergoing the Kahs-wan ordeal on Vulcan. However, Spock remembers that when he took the Kahs-wan, his life was saved by Selek - an adult relative - when a desert creature had attacked them. Realizing what must have happened, Spock knows he must go back through the time gate to his Vulcan childhood, and save the life of the child he was.

At first, this proceeds smoothly: Spock assumes the identity of Selek, and is welcomed into the home of Sarek and Amanda Grayson[note 2]. "Selek" journeys into the desert to find his younger self, and saves the boy. However, I Chaya - Spock's pet sehlat - has been gravely wounded. Young Spock is offered a choice: either I Chaya can be treated with medicines (but will live in obvious pain) or his pet can be allowed to die with dignity. Young Spock chooses the latter, and I Chaya dies peacefully.

By making this choice, Spock has thus chosen the Vulcan way of life - logic and emotional control - and his elder self, successful in repairing history, returns to the restored present day.

It's the same basic storyline as "City", and it includes the Guardian of Forever. So while it's not a direct sequel, it is directly inspired by COTEOF.

That's two for two.

Are the Hugo awards voted on by STAR TREK fans?

And you've already been proven wrong on the sequel issue.

You're 0 for 2.

Oh, I see. You're splitting hairs in an effort to continue arguing. Well, split them with someone else. I have made my points. Others have made theirs, and you choose not to actually consider them since they don't fit the answers you want to hear. You're free to like or dislike COTEOF, it's no skin off my nose.

 

[MikeH92467]

This episode is amazing in many ways. Harlan Ellison has never quit bitching about the way his script was re-written and just about everyone involved in the re-writing process ended up hating him and each other. I have read one of Ellison's original treatments and it certainly was quite good, but GR (or whomever) was quite right in thinking that it didn't fit the overall tone of what the series was about. Oddly, I don't think anyone can say definitively who wrote the actual final draft that went on to become one of the most acclaimed episodes of Science Fiction in television history. My takeaways are:

1) Harlan Ellison is an extremely talented writer
2) Harlan Ellison is a monumentally self-absorbed prick
3) Writers who treat scripts as timeless works of art instead of disposable commodities are kidding themselves
4) Despite all the bellyaching everyone from fans, to actors, to writers does about the idiots in charge of TV programs and/or studios some of them do know what they're doing
5) Harlan Ellison is a monumentally self-absorbed prick

 

[Amaris]

This episode is amazing in many ways. Harlan Ellison has never quit bitching about the way his script was re-written and just about everyone involved in the re-writing process ended up hating him and each other. I have read one of Ellison's original treatments and it certainly was quite good, but GR (or whomever) was quite right in thinking that it didn't fit the overall tone of what the series was about. Oddly, I don't think anyone can say definitively who wrote the actual final draft that went on to become one of the most acclaimed episodes of Science Fiction in television history. My takeaways are:

1) Harlan Ellison is an extremely talented writer
2) Harlan Ellison is a monumentally self-absorbed prick
3) Writers who treat scripts as timeless works of art instead of disposable commodities are kidding themselves
4) Despite all the bellyaching everyone from fans, to actors, to writers does about the idiots in charge of TV programs and/or studios some of them do know what they're doing
5) Harlan Ellison is a monumentally self-absorbed prick

All solid points. The great thing about Ellison was his desire to get paid. Nothing else trumped that. Not universal equality, not lofty, aspiring artistic visions, nothing mattered if he didn't get that green. Every interview I can recall, he usually said something to the effect of "make sure you get paid!". I loved him for that.

 

[Knight Templar]

The only person I've heard that could consistently handle Harlan Ellison was J. Michael Stracyinski on Babylon-Five.

I followed Babylon-5 closely and it seems that Ellison respected JMS, was given a lofty title during the run of the show, and was generally fairly content (at least as well as Ellison ever did) during that time.

Of course, it could've just been age catching up with Ellison and he no longer had the fire to fight people and be a jerk that he did 30 years earlier.

I never liked Ellison but I can cut him some slack as Roddenberry in regards to City on the Edge of Forever told some flat out lies regarding Ellison's original script.