ST-One
Vice Admiral
And I'm not surprised.
Chris Pine says new movie will be "Sexed Up" for a new Generation
- Thread starter Falcor5
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And I'm not surprised.
Star Trek is at its best when it can be accessed by fans from 2 to 92. There's nothing in The Wrath of Khan that's unsuitable for a child (parts that are boring and should've been cut, certainly, but that's age-irrelevant). There's nothing unsuitable in the original series, The Voyage Home, or The Undiscovered Country. There's nothing unsuitable in The Next Generation or Deep Space Nine. If anything, trying to be 'edgy' has hurt Star Trek. 'Edginess' is juvenile. There's no need to 'push the envelope.' We only need a good story told well.
And even if an envelope were to be pushed, why not push it toward optimism, principle, and imagination? Why settle for the same old things masquerading as new ground?
ST-One
Vice Admiral
Ceti-eels eating their way into heads in TWOK
exploding head in 'Conspiracy'
severed limb in TUC
the horrible death-screams in TMP
I wouldn't take a kid to see The Dark Knight. I probably would take them to see something like Persepolis though. Both were PG-13, but The Dark Knight was pretty brutal, and I don't know that kids are ready to deal with the complex themes of ethical relativism pervasive in TDK as much as the spirit of individualism and political awareness in Persepolis. It's the reason Stephen Colbert doesn't let his kids watch The Colbert Report (they're not old enough to digest the irony).
I agree with the distinction between family-friendly and family-focused. Brad Bird's films are a good example. His films are only family-focused in as much as they're animated and sold by Disney and Pixar (though in the case of "The Iron Giant" it was 20th Century Fox), and marketed as family fare. But otherwise, his movies are loving homages to nostalgic cinematic forms with characters that are flawed but generally try to do the right thing, at least in their minds. They all have motivations and those motivations clash and complement each other creating believable worlds about which people of all ages can relate. In that way, his films are family-friendly, but really only family-focused in terms of marketing.
I agree with the distinction between family-friendly and family-focused. Brad Bird's films are a good example. His films are only family-focused in as much as they're animated and sold by Disney and Pixar (though in the case of "The Iron Giant" it was 20th Century Fox), and marketed as family fare. But otherwise, his movies are loving homages to nostalgic cinematic forms with characters that are flawed but generally try to do the right thing, at least in their minds. They all have motivations and those motivations clash and complement each other creating believable worlds about which people of all ages can relate. In that way, his films are family-friendly, but really only family-focused in terms of marketing.
I don't remember much of TMP beyond it being incredibly boring and slow, but none of those are particularly horrible for kids to see. (The TNG example made it past the stricter television censorship standards of its day.) Kids can handle a good deal more gruesomeness than they're given credit for. (Think back to childrens' stories; how many of them have decidedly hideous elements?) So long as the situations are dealt with matter-of-factly, not dwelt upon, reveled in, or portrayed in an exceptionally graphically realistically horrible way, they do fine.
(I think I saw all of these scenes, btw, save TUC's, which I really had to think about to remember, before I was three. And I still largely dislike violence and gruesomeness in movies.)
ST-One
Vice Admiral
I, more or less, agree with you.
But it seem that if a little sex is thrown into the mix, the objections get louder and louder.
So far I see nothing about the movie that's any more objectionable than the original "Star Wars."
Heck, less so - nobody has sliced off someone's hand, yet.
Heck, less so - nobody has sliced off someone's hand, yet.
Sex has four significant problems. First, sex scenes (as separate from implied sex, which is seldom raised as a concern) are generally unnecessary to the story. Second, what sex scenes there are are usually used to draw interest and attention to the attractiveness of the participants or eroticism of the scene more than to the story or the characters. Third, sex tends to be treated in very juvenile ways, even in purportedly complex and mature productions (e.g. Nip/Tuck, Battlestar Galactica). Fourth, while violence is a very public fact of life, sex is very private for most people, and so garners a different, stronger reaction. Three of four of these problems run into difficulties with what works for children: they don't deal with sex matter-of-factly, but dwell on it and revel in it.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
It was "The Next Generation" which neutered "Star Trek". There was plenty of sex, pushing the limits of television, in the orginal series. Green Orion Slave women come from the PILOT. Harry Mudd's "Venus drug" made commentary about self-esteem and aphrodisiacs in the first season. Kirk fricking seated on the edge of his bed pulling his boots on to make OBVIOUS what happened during the commercial break. Kirk and Uhura shared the first inter-racial kiss on television. By the time of the movies, Kirk was dealing with having an illigetimate kid.
Seriously, TOS gets a lot of crap for being "corny" or inconsistent or scientifically "inaccurate" but I wonder if some people have even seen it, with the comments they make.
It was Picard and crew who totally took sex out of Star Trek. And, except for some interesting twists in the Mirror Universe in "Deep Space Nine" and the embarassingly juvenile nonsense in "Enterprise", there's been little since.
Trek is as much about exploring the human experience and psyche as it is about exploring space. Sex is PART of those realms. If it fits and tells a good story, bring it on. Good luck to them in doing something as classy and (still) relevant as "Mudd's Women" in this movie.
Seriously, TOS gets a lot of crap for being "corny" or inconsistent or scientifically "inaccurate" but I wonder if some people have even seen it, with the comments they make.
It was Picard and crew who totally took sex out of Star Trek. And, except for some interesting twists in the Mirror Universe in "Deep Space Nine" and the embarassingly juvenile nonsense in "Enterprise", there's been little since.
Trek is as much about exploring the human experience and psyche as it is about exploring space. Sex is PART of those realms. If it fits and tells a good story, bring it on. Good luck to them in doing something as classy and (still) relevant as "Mudd's Women" in this movie.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
Well, yes and no.
Even if you weren't around to watch at the time TOS was being produced, all you have to do is compare it to other shows which were on television at the same time (and many movies in the theaters, as well) and it's plain that Star Trek was pushing the boundaries of that era quite often. I wouldn't expect this movie to be pushing any current boundaries at all, save those of that portion of the Trek audience who believe that Trek has to be exactly a certain way. The general audiences Abrams & Co. are hoping to capture likely won't find anything very surprising on the "sexy" front in this movie.
It's the American way...
Second episode of TNG, The Naked Now, had Tasha Yar as an insatiable nyphomaniac who fucked a robot.
I had no problem with that, I have no problem seeing Urura's bra or Kirk jumping the bones of an orion slave girl.
Kirk's sex life was always up front in TOS. What's up with all this righteous indignation over all this?
"OMG, I needed an excuse to hate this movie, so I'll use Zoe's bra covered boobies to justify it!"
Just click here to see clips of Kirk being a bastard to Janice Rand.
I had no problem with that, I have no problem seeing Urura's bra or Kirk jumping the bones of an orion slave girl.
Kirk's sex life was always up front in TOS. What's up with all this righteous indignation over all this?
"OMG, I needed an excuse to hate this movie, so I'll use Zoe's bra covered boobies to justify it!"
Just click here to see clips of Kirk being a bastard to Janice Rand.
Yeah, people are being too anal about this. Which, incidentally, is what the movie needs more of
(Groan all you want, that joke's been burning a hole in my keyboard since I saw the thread in the first place
)
You might want to get a new keyboard...
Yeah, people are being too anal about this. Which, incidentally, is what the movie needs more of
(Groan all you want, that joke's been burning a hole in my keyboard since I saw the thread in the first place
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