Chinese Stealth Fighter/Bomber

[Switch]

A line from another board which some folks here might appreciate:

Don't laugh too hard, Obama actually stopped the F-35 from having twin engines.

Talk about a hands-on Presidency.

 

[clint g]

If China remains this totalitarian regime and doesn't fold in on itself it may well be that in 10-20 years it may decide to flex its muscles and start to expand and there is little the world can do without shooting itself in the foot too.

Actually, there is a lot the world can do. Our little friend called the internet is doing plenty to undermine the Chinese...but I suppose that is a different story

 

[Switch]

If China remains this totalitarian regime and doesn't fold in on itself it may well be that in 10-20 years it may decide to flex its muscles and start to expand and there is little the world can do without shooting itself in the foot too.

Actually, there is a lot the world can do. Our little friend called the internet is doing plenty to undermine the Chinese...but I suppose that is a different story

Wishful thinking I think. All China has to do is continue to deliver on the promise of prosperity for its citizens and it's in the bag. Folks with houses, wealth and specialised jobs don't dare speak too loudly: they have far too much to lose. It's a good thing that the other large rising powers - India, Brazil and Indonesia - are already democracies, because I think China is going to deliver a major blow to some core western articles of faith over the coming decades.

 

[clint g]

The PRC disagrees with you

 

[Switch]

The PRC disagrees with you

How's that? If you mean that internal stability is the CCP's greatest concern, well, sure. And of course the internet is a vector of discontent and one that is disproportionately accessible to the well off. But the big picture remains that development = stability. The CCP is in a far better position today than it was in 1989, and one of the main reasons for that is that it has pulled something like 300 million people out of poverty since then and the progress - particularly relative to India's lack thereof - is evident to everyone. And now it's building skyscrapers for those 300m people.

 

[clint g]

Again, the PRC disagrees with you. If they didn't think the internet was a threat, they wouldn't be so fearful of it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/05/w...+(Business+Insider)&utm_content=Google+Reader

 

[Switch]

Again, the PRC disagrees with you. If they didn't think the internet was a threat, they wouldn't be so fearful of it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/05/w...+(Business+Insider)&utm_content=Google+Reader

Did you even read your own link?

Yet despite the hints of paranoia that appear in some cables, there are also clear signs that Chinese leaders do not consider the Internet an unstoppable force for openness and democracy, as some Americans believe.

In fact, this spring, around the time of the Google pullout, China’s State Council Information Office delivered a triumphant report to the leadership on its work to regulate traffic online, according to a crucial Chinese contact cited by the State Department in a cable in early 2010, when contacted directly by The Times.

The message delivered by the office, the person said, was that “in the past, a lot of officials worried that the Web could not be controlled.”

“But through the Google incident and other increased controls and surveillance, like real-name registration, they reached a conclusion: the Web is fundamentally controllable,” the person said.

Of course the internet is a threat to the CCP, but not necessarily an insurmountable one, and its growth is emblematic of a broader trend of development which is a net stabilising influence. Folks who live comfortably, wear ties to work and have bank accounts do not likely dissidents make. They might whinge, but they'll never do anything because the state will come and take their designer sofa away. Folks who don't have anything to lose in the first place are much more likely to put it all on the line.

Which, incidentally, is why all that Tea Party crap is just so such hot air ... and by corollary why you can't go ten feet throughout much of the Middle East without some disenfranchised youth with no prospects for the future trying to blow you up.

 

[Switch]

Moar imagery:

Some folks have picked up on the narrowing of the engine nacelles as an indication that WS-15 will indeed be larger than the 117S engines fitted to this preproduction prototype.

I wonder if China would be willing to sell the RAAF a few of these things?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

A line from another board which some folks here might appreciate:

Don't laugh too hard, Obama actually stopped the F-35 from having twin engines.

Talk about a hands-on Presidency.

That's nothing. I heard Obama was involved in J.F.K.'s assassination.

Again, the PRC disagrees with you. If they didn't think the internet was a threat, they wouldn't be so fearful of it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/05/world/asia/05wikileaks-china.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&hp&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+businessinsider+(Business+Insider)&utm_content=Google+Reader

Did you even read your own link?

Yet despite the hints of paranoia that appear in some cables, there are also clear signs that Chinese leaders do not consider the Internet an unstoppable force for openness and democracy, as some Americans believe.

In fact, this spring, around the time of the Google pullout, China’s State Council Information Office delivered a triumphant report to the leadership on its work to regulate traffic online, according to a crucial Chinese contact cited by the State Department in a cable in early 2010, when contacted directly by The Times.

The message delivered by the office, the person said, was that “in the past, a lot of officials worried that the Web could not be controlled.”

“But through the Google incident and other increased controls and surveillance, like real-name registration, they reached a conclusion: the Web is fundamentally controllable,” the person said.

Of course the internet is a threat to the CCP, but not necessarily an insurmountable one, and its growth is emblematic of a broader trend of development which is a net stabilising influence. Folks who live comfortably, wear ties to work and have bank accounts do not likely dissidents make. They might whinge, but they'll never do anything because the state will come and take their designer sofa away. Folks who don't have anything to lose in the first place are much more likely to put it all on the line.

Which, incidentally, is why all that Tea Party crap is just so such hot air ... and by corollary why you can't go ten feet throughout much of the Middle East without some disenfranchised youth with no prospects for the future trying to blow you up.

From what I understand, Chinese solidarity is incredibly difficult to break. It's one of those cultures where even different factions that hate each other will be willing to forgive and seek some sort of compromise eventually as long as one of them isn't being influenced by a foreign power.

 

[Switch]

A line from another board which some folks here might appreciate:

Don't laugh too hard, Obama actually stopped the F-35 from having twin engines.

Talk about a hands-on Presidency.

That's nothing. I heard Obama was involved in J.F.K.'s assassination.

The man certainly gets around.

From what I understand, Chinese solidarity is incredibly difficult to break. It's one of those cultures where even different factions that hate each other will be willing to forgive and seek some sort of compromise eventually as long as one of them isn't being influenced by a foreign power.

And of course having foreigners poking around is enough to bring folks who otherwise can't stand each other together pretty much anywhere. Very useful people those foreigners.

Anyway, for those interested in such things I came across a nice summary presentation on the evolution of PRC airpower from former head of USAF Intel Lt. General (ret.) Deptula. It predates the unveiling of J-20 but is still very relevant:

The PLA Air Force is undergoing a real transformation. They’re moving from a force that historically relied on quantitative advantage alone, to one that aspires to achieve a qualitative advantage; but with sufficient quantity to dominate in their immediate region. They are accomplishing that objective rapidly, and they’re doing it in a smart fashion, because they’re not just chunking these old aircraft, but rather as it indicates on the chart, they’re transitioning many of them into remotely piloted aircraft. [....] They know that in a nominal conflict situation that their adversary will have challenges trying to pick out the wheat from the chaff. For example, using manned aircraft with their advanced technologies and electronic attack capabilities, and intermingling them with remotely piloted aircraft that are easily seen. That kind of a concept of operations might be used to distract the relatively few 5th generation aircraft that could be put up against this kind of a force within the next decade. It’s a simple strategy, but it has the potential of being very effective. In this transition from old to new, it was agreed at the Taiwan conference on the PLA Air Force that they have achieved essentially four to five decades of progress in less than 20 years. So they’re modernizing at a very rapid rate.

The unfortunate thing is that the United States has very little room to react to the changing balance of power here. Military spending is already sky high and the deficit is already crippling. The only direction budgets are going - and justifiably so - is down. Most folks know of my political leanings, but I think a strong case can be made on purely Machiavellian grounds that America's post-9/11 interventions in the Middle East have been nothing less than disastrous for American national security. Afghanistan and Iraq may well wind up costing the United States control of the Pacific come 2025. And for what?

 

[farmkid]

It seems at least some of China's rapid progress may be based on reverse engineered American technology.

 

[Chaos Descending]

I don't think even one person ever doubted that, farmkid.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Am I still the only one who thinks that thing is hideous?

It looks like the result of a night of drunken passion between a MiG-31 and a YF-23.

 

[Switch]

It's inelegant, but not hideous. I'd certainly take it over the stubby, bloated F-35.

 

[FPAlpha]

I think it's ok looking and has a close resemblance to the F22.

However it's a huge plane.. certainly not intended to dogfight effective but to penetrate radar defenses and unleash its payload before making a stealthy retreat.

 

[MANT!]

Exactly, it's a stealth F-111, an aircraft that is exceedingly useful in high intensity combat...

Also complex and expensive to produce and maintain...


It will be delayed from it's overly optimistic IOC date provided by the PRC government...

 

[Switch]

They could take the Russian route and just push it out the door as soon as possible and iterate as they go along, but I don't think China is desperate for new airframes in the same way that Russia is. They already have JH-7 for strike and Su-30MKK/MK2 for heavy multirole, both reasonably modern platforms. They'll take their time.

 

[STR]

China tries to pass off clip of "Top Gun" as air force footage.

Who needs stealth when you've got Maverick on your side? He's dangerous.

 

[farmkid]

^

 

[CorporalClegg]

Goose is peeking.