All those Episcopalians must not be Christians, in your judgment. Jesus DID say something about judging others, didn't he?
Chick-fil-A digging themselves a hole
- Thread starter Ar-Pharazon
- Start date
Saying that you are being "closed-minded" is not name-calling. I'm not making fun of how you think. I'm saying that the statements you put forth in your last post repulsed me, because they did. It bothers me immensely, actually, and if I wanted to call you names or be rude about it I could certainly say a lot worse!
You're getting called named on a message board? Yeah, that's not always fun. But it's not fun reading posts like yours and feeling unwanted in my own country, either. Do you understand that your words and the things they stand for are just as cruel, or perhaps even moreso?
Kestra, telling it like it is. And far more kindly than I would.
Poor persecuted Christians. Wah wah wah. Believe whatever the fuck you want, but keep your beliefs out of our personal lives. Chick-fil-a gives money to HATE groups.
Intolerance of intolerance is not being intolerant.
Someone who is against another person sharing in the same rights, freedoms and privileges that everyone else enjoys is being a bit of a bigot, or closed minded. Not liking those people is not, it's having a sensibility that everyone is equal and should be treated as such.
You're certainly welcome to think and feel how you want but realize that if you think a group of people should be treated a certain way simply because of some aspect they all share you are being bigoted. If you don't think those people should be treated equally and that they don't deserve the same privileges as everyone else because "God says its wrong" then you are being closed minded.
CFA supports groups trying to curb rights for homosexuals and they openly admit it and the head of the company openly says and acts as if the homosexual lifestyle is beneath him and what people should be tolerated. That's pretty much the very definition of bigotry and bigotry should not be tolerated.
He wants a group of people to be treated differently simply because of who they choose to sleep with and who they are. Why should we as a modern society put up with such thinking?
He's welcome to think it, sure, but people still support the KKK and other White Supremacy groups and think blacks and other minorities are lesser than whites and should be treated as such. They're welcome to think it. Doesn't mean they're all also bigoted, closed-minded, ass-hats living centuries in the past with their ideals.
Then follow what Jesus told you to do and worry about your own sins instead of what other people are up to.
Why should other people be forced by law to comply with your beliefs? Would you be ok if you were barred from eating pork because it violates the religious beliefs of Jews and Muslims?
We all know where this is going to lead, so no more needs to be said about all that in this thread. I don't want any hard feelings, or to cause an issue. I've stated my opinion on the company, my support for their stance, and where I base this support on. The topic of this thread has been addressed by me, I am blessed I got to speak my opinion in an open forum.
I'm a Christian, I believe the Bible is Gods word and is the foundation of morals I try to live by. It is Gods will I try to follow, above my own. I'm not a perfect person, in fact I sin everyday, I'm far far far from perfect, I'm just trying to survive on this rock just like everyone else, following Jesus in my journey
I love you guys, and girls - P.S. look me up in STO, I'm a hard core STO player :P
I'm a Christian, I believe the Bible is Gods word and is the foundation of morals I try to live by. It is Gods will I try to follow, above my own. I'm not a perfect person, in fact I sin everyday, I'm far far far from perfect, I'm just trying to survive on this rock just like everyone else, following Jesus in my journey
I love you guys, and girls - P.S. look me up in STO, I'm a hard core STO player :P
A
Amaris
Guest
Exactly. Well said.
I'm a Christian, I believe the Bible is Gods word and is the foundation of morals I try to live by. It is Gods will I try to follow, above my own. I'm not a perfect person, in fact I sin everyday, I'm far far far from perfect, I'm just trying to survive on this rock just like everyone else, following Jesus in my journey
Yet Jesus would openly love homosexual people, treat them as equals and not turn his back on them.
I'm a Christian, I believe the Bible is Gods word and is the foundation of morals I try to live by. It is Gods will I try to follow, above my own. I'm not a perfect person, in fact I sin everyday, I'm far far far from perfect, I'm just trying to survive on this rock just like everyone else, following Jesus in my journey
Yet Jesus would openly love homosexual people, treat them as equals and not turn his back on them.
This.
You can thump your Bible all you want. It doesn't make you right or better than anyone else. The Bible was written by man, not God. Many men, over centuries.
Unless I'm missing something here, are you implying that once this pre-natal test is discovered, everyone (except those whose religious values strictly forbid it) will choose to abort their baby rather than have a homosexual child?
So, those who really and truly have no problem with their child being homosexual, including those who have children who are openly homosexual and fully accept it, if given the choice, would have aborted their baby, rather than have it grow up homosexual?
And those who maybe are not as supportive of homosexuals, but, for non-religious reasons are strictly against abortion, they'll gladly ignore their beliefs about abortion in order to prevent themselves from having a homosexual child?
I'm sorry, I just don't buy your vision of the future.
I think the issue here isn't that you are calling people names, but the implied belief that since you do believe in "God's word," then you view homosexuality as a sin. Maybe you aren't making fun of their beliefs, but you can see how some people will take offense at the implication that homosexuality is evil. And, while it may be going out on a limb, can you understand how some people take that implication to mean that anyone who supports homosexuality, regardless of their sexual orientation, might be sinful themselves?
You say that you see Christians, such as Dan Cathy standing for what's right, but you don't see how insulting that is to those of us who disagree with Mr. Cathy. You are claiming moral superiority here, and thus, dismissing the opinions of others in this thread, as "wrong." Yes, you don't use the words, "You are wrong," but by implying that you and others who believe homosexuality is a sin are right, you imply the rest of us are wrong.
Earlier, you posted:
Later you seem to qualify "people need to stand their ground on their beliefs and not be afraid of the consequences":
So which is it? Are you in favor of everyone who believes in something standing their ground, in which case you, logically, should be in favor of those who disagree with Mr. Cathy and are boycotting Chick-Fil-A, on the grounds that they believe their money shouldn't go to support opinions they don't agree with? Or are you just in favor of Christians standing their ground?
Of course it doesn't harm them. Know what does harm heterosexual marriage?
Infidelity. Dishonesty. Incompatibility. Emotional distance from one another. Sham marriages done solely for the money or just so one partner or the other doesn't feel lonely anymore. You know. The crap that drives couples of any orientation apart.
Straight marriage is threatened by a lot, but two men or two women kissing and sharing rings doesn't fall into that category.
Infidelity. Dishonesty. Incompatibility. Emotional distance from one another. Sham marriages done solely for the money or just so one partner or the other doesn't feel lonely anymore. You know. The crap that drives couples of any orientation apart.
Straight marriage is threatened by a lot, but two men or two women kissing and sharing rings doesn't fall into that category.
Don't run off feeling morally superior, you aren't. This is a discussion forum, not a proclamation forum. Jesus never mentions homosexuality. Why didn't he? He talks a lot about the sin of divorce - do you support taking away the rights of divorced people? Divorce goes against the word of Christ - so where are all the groups protesting mutiple marriages?We all know where this is going to lead, so no more needs to be said about all that in this thread. I don't want any hard feelings, or to cause an issue. I've stated my opinion on the company, my support for their stance, and where I base this support on. The topic of this thread has been addressed by me, I am blessed I got to speak my opinion in an open forum.
I'm a Christian, I believe the Bible is Gods word and is the foundation of morals I try to live by. It is Gods will I try to follow, above my own. I'm not a perfect person, in fact I sin everyday, I'm far far far from perfect, I'm just trying to survive on this rock just like everyone else, following Jesus in my journey
I love you guys, and girls - P.S. look me up in STO, I'm a hard core STO player :P
We all know where this is going to lead, so no more needs to be said about all that in this thread. I don't want any hard feelings, or to cause an issue. I've stated my opinion on the company, my support for their stance, and where I base this support on. The topic of this thread has been addressed by me, I am blessed I got to speak my opinion in an open forum.
I'm a Christian, I believe the Bible is Gods word and is the foundation of morals I try to live by. It is Gods will I try to follow, above my own. I'm not a perfect person, in fact I sin everyday, I'm far far far from perfect, I'm just trying to survive on this rock just like everyone else, following Jesus in my journey
I love you guys, and girls - P.S. look me up in STO, I'm a hard core STO player :P
I think there are going to be a lot of hard feelings, honestly. I'd encourage you to stay here and participate in discussion, not because I'm trying to bait you or taunt you or anything. I know that it's difficult to have a conversation when you feel like everyone is against you.
But these kind of conversations need to happen. We *all* need to challenge our beliefs if they are going to mean anything. Otherwise they are just empty words we heard from someone else and are blindly repeating. I consider myself religious and sometimes I hate when people ask the hard questions. The ones where my first instinct is to leave the conversation because it feels too hostile. But those questions that other people ask of religion, the ones that I dislike? They haven't torn down my belief. They've helped shape it and refine it.
I know that you're Christian and I'm not asking you not to be. I am asking you to try to step outside that mindset even briefly, and consider what it is like for others. In this case, people who simply want the same rights as everyone else. It's not about being anti-Christian. It's about wanting to be left alone to live their lives, just as you want to be left alone to live your life by your beliefs.
I really hope you take this opportunity to ask questions and stick around to discuss things in the thread. But if you can't do that much, consider PMing me if you are willing to continue this conversation and have an open mind.
But you can't say "I don't want to make this an issue" because it is an issue already, and affects the lives of many people.
Infraction for flaming, comments to PM
Well, that would be because the beliefs of the people running Chick-Fil-A are bigoted.
See how that works?
Then live by it, no one can ever say you can't. They're saying you shouldn't try to force everyone else to live by your interpretation of it, especially when the majority opinion of the Bible was that we should worry about our own selves and not others.
Most of what everyone has said in this thread, especially in response to Brent, who I assume wasn't just trolling, reaffirms my faith in humanity.
Unless I'm missing something here, are you implying that once this pre-natal test is discovered, everyone (except those whose religious values strictly forbid it) will choose to abort their baby rather than have a homosexual child?
So, those who really and truly have no problem with their child being homosexual, including those who have children who are openly homosexual and fully accept it, if given the choice, would have aborted their baby, rather than have it grow up homosexual?
In retrospect, almost nobody who's had a child with Down's Syndrome would choose to have aborted them, either, yet 92% of Down's babies are aborted. It's a decision that's made before the parents get a chance to know the child. After they know the child, their opinion changes.
Image a likely scenario. The test comes back and mom and dad have a talk. And they talk for a week or so, and dad is kind of uncomfortable, and mom knows it, and mom is kind of uncomfortable too. It's hard enough for a young couple to imagine raising a kid that'll be like they are. Then they wonder if their other kids would have trouble with a gay sibling. Then they wonder what their own parents would think. In many cases, unless they've been having a lot of trouble conceiving, they might just decide to try again.
And the more people who make that decision, and confess it to their friends, the more likely their friends will be to make the same choice. Even though few adults harbor any hate against children with Down's Syndrome, the abortion rate for them is around 92%.
Certainly the abortion rate from a pre-natal gay test would be much lower, but it doesn't take much to make a big dent in the population numbers. If the initial numbers came in at 50% it would create a pretty big shift, and that number is guaranteed if you think half the population is already bigots. Then you've got the rest of the population that would have no problem with gays, but would kind-of, sort-of, prefer not to really have one as a child at this time thank you very much. So a 75% overall abortion rate would seem pretty likely.
Stretch that out a generation and the young people are growing up with far fewer gay people. They'll be a little less comfortable than their parent's generation, and the abortion rate creeps up a little more, say to 85%. So in the generation after that, they're rarer still, and the parents who wouldn't have aborted because of anti-gay bias will start worrying that a gay child will never find a partner, or will feel all alone, etc, and the rate creeps even higher. The limit would probably a little less than the current 92% Down's Syndrome level, and we can surmise that most of the 8% of Down's babies who are still being born are being born in very Christian homes.
The gay community will of course be very upset as soon as they realize that couples are choosing to abort gay children, which would seem tantamount to genocide. Even the deaf community was horribly upset when cochlear implants came out because they saw the end of the deaf community.
Do you ban the test, or do you ban abortions? If the rhetoric gets too heated, feminists will protest that gays are dictating what women can and can't do with their wombs, and essentially using them as incubators. That'll make for some fiery talk-show panels. And the wackiest Christian moms will be siding with the gays against the feminists, while denouncing the gay lifestyle. It will be like the pundits and interest groups are playing musical chairs with their strongly held moral convictions.
Of course, by then all restaurants will be Chick-Fil-A.
